Hammer for an 1891 rimfire?

[Brooklynite]

Any advice on where to find a hammer from a 2nd model .38 single action?
I've searched most of the gun parts sights the past few days and they mostly have parts from the double actions.

 

[mmaher94087]

The best that I can say is to watch Gun Parts Corp, possibly Jack First and eBay as these parts show up occasionally.

 

[BMur]

Model of 91 hammer

Finding an original Model of 91 hammer would be honestly, difficult. Not a lot were made.
Since you are putting together a shooter it would be much easier to repair the original hammer.

If you can photo the hammer with the side plate removed a better assessment can be made of the trigger and hammer combo.

Murph

 

[BMur]

Major modifications?

Looking at your muzzle photo?
This barrel has likely been inserted or relined.
Can you show a photo of the rear of the barrel at the breech? Where you load the case?

Murph

 

[mmaher94087]

"If you can photo the hammer with the side plate removed a better assessment can be made of the trigger and hammer combo."

Murph, post #17 shows the hammer and trigger. I believe the repair of the original parts is the easiest way to go. I also believe the barrel has been cut but not religned.

 

[BMur]

Post 17

Thanks Mike,
I missed that post.

If you look closely at the close up photo of the cut barrel muzzle you'll notice the hole is not centered. See the point of junction? The muzzle is low on center with a copper ring around the insert. That's what I'm seeing from the photo. A clear photo of the breech will tell the tale. Copper inserts are used to assist in pressing the insert snug. If we see that copper circle at the breech and way low on center the insert becomes obvious.

The trigger sear appears to have already been welded to add metal. A little Dremel work at the weld location only would repair the slip off lock up.


Murph

 

[BMur]

Comparing barrels

If we compare the OPs' barrel to an unaltered factory 22rf target 10" barrel you can see the difference regarding "center" of muzzle bore.

Murph

 

[mmaher94087]

The rimfire barrel bores of the single shot pistols were drilled off-center at the breach end to accommodate the centerfire hammer. The bore on the muzzle end was centered. When a rimfire barrel is cut the result is an off center bore.

 

[Brooklynite]

I'll take some more photos when I get home.
The bore is off center, but I didn't notice the barrel having been relined. I wasn't looking for evidence of that though, so it's possible. I had assumed like Mmaher said that it was just due to the need to make a center fire hammer location work on a rimfire.

I also didn't notice evidence of previous welding work done to the sear, but wasn't looking for that either.

One thing I'm still unclear on… Was the hammer mounted firing pin originally a solid part of the rest of the hammer (all one part machined out of a single piece of steel), or was it always a separate piece that was fitted into place?

 

[BMur]

Hammers

The early Topbreak hammers are one piece case hardened. You are experiencing the disadvantage. Any damage to the firing pin required a replacement hammer or machined repair.
Later hammers corrected this by including a removable firing pin. So a distinct improvement.

Murph

 

[Brooklynite]

Thanks, my other smiths all have the seperate firing pin.

Took a look at the pistol again. BMur, I think you're correct about the barrel being relined. That shouldn't effect the gun's function too much right?
How much time did a previous owner have to spend shooting a single shot .22 to wear out the sear and shoot out the barrel??

To my eye, there isn't any added material to the sear.

But really, I'm still hoping to simply track down a new hammer. In order to get a new hammer functioning it should just be some minor fitting to match it up with the trigger I hope?

 

[BMur]

Repairs

It's up to you what you want to pursue.

It's my experience that finding parts for low production antiques and curios can sometimes take years. I would repair what you have so you can test-fire the gun. The repairs aren't difficult but finding that hammer is for sure.

The relined barrel looks semi-professionally performed. However, it's impossible for anyone to evaluate the quality of the work from photos. Your photos are excellent but some things just have to be in hand to evaluate.

The most common problem with a reline is matching the sight picture. More often the bullet will impact sometimes inches off point of aim. Sometimes in the next county? (Sorry, my wife says I have a sick sense of humor.)

Which for a target pistol isn't what you want.

I would have to look at it closely And in hand.

I'll be honest with you I'd recommend you also look for a replacement unaltered original long barrel while you're searching for the 91 hammer.

That's why you need to just get it functional so you can test the quality of the reline.

*** I also noticed from your breech photo the chamber "appears" short. Did you try chambering a 22 Long Rifle? The machinist may have chambered it for a 22 short or even a CB?

Murph

 

[BMur]

Reline

I adjusted your muzzle photo.
Take a look at the photo attached. It appears to me without an in hand inspection that the reline is off center. See my yellow dot?
That's about where the center should be.
So it looks like the reline is low and right of center.
The gun would then shoot low and right. How much? Quite a bit at 20 yards.
So it's actually not a good reline job.

Murph

 

[Brooklynite]

Thanks again for all the info.

I haven't yet tried chambering a 22lr, but have a pile of 22 short if need be. Even if it's rechambered for CBs I wouldn't mind using this as a "parlor pistol" type plinker.

The barrel shooting off the original point of aim would make sense given the "Adjusted" and slightly uneven rear sight.

If finding a hammer really is a near impossible task, I guess I'll try getting the current parts in working order. It may be outside my skill level but I don't mind tinkering around.
What would a decent gunsmith charge for welding the firing pin back in place?
The pistol itself cost me less than 200 bucks, so I'd rather not put too much money into this project at the moment.

I'll probably keep an eye out for a replacement barrel if one eventually pops up at a good price.

 

[BMur]

200 bucks

You did well. Parts alone are worth a lot more than that.
If you don't want to put money into it I'd just JB weld that firing pin back on since it's drilled out and pinned.
JB weld is pretty strong industrial glue.
It's not like you're shooting a 357 Mag.
It's just a single shot 22short.

Murph

Let us know how it shoots.

 

[Brooklynite]

Poked and prodded around with the pistol last weekend.
I filed the full-cock notch a bit, and the hammer can no longer be pushed out of position and will only trip when the trigger is pulled. The trigger pull is very light, I'm tempted to run the file over it a few more times but will probably keep it as is.
BMur, I decided to go with JB weld as you suggested. It seemed to work well, but the firing pin settled at a slightly upward angle and was dragging along the top of the little hole it pokes through in the frame. I had to hit the top of it with the file to get it to fall smoothly.

Today I was finally able to get some time to test it out, and did a little informal plinking. It is chambered for 22lr, and not 22 short which is nice. Aside from about 1 in 20 shots being light strikes, and shooting a little off point of aim, it worked.

Point of aim I can adjust, the light strikes I'm not sure about. The hammer is hitting the extreme edge of the case. probably from my having to file along it's top, or all the previous tinkering done to the pistol.

I'm happy with it, and can live with the way it is until I can replace the hammer, and maybe the barrel if I get lucky.

Thanks for the insight and advice.

 

[ol777gunnerz]

info

If you were a member of the SWCA, you would receive a booklet that would show the name of a member who collects & deals in single shot parts.