Hammer stud broke on my 442

[Pef]

I've had a trigger pivot pin break on my 642. Smith & Wesson replaced the revolver.

I've had hammer studs break on my 637-2 and 640 Pro. Smith & Wesson replaced both revolvers.

That's an exceptionally bad run for new SW revolvers. Each of them broke within a year or two of purchase. But the replacements seem to be working fine now.

Seems like if these are going to break, they break sooner rather than later. At least from my experience with three failures.

 

[ABPOS]

I've had a trigger pivot pin break on my 642. Smith & Wesson replaced the revolver.

I've had hammer studs break on my 637-2 and 640 Pro. Smith & Wesson replaced both revolvers.

That's an exceptionally bad run for new SW revolvers. Each of them broke within a year or two of purchase. But the replacements seem to be working fine now.

Seems like if these are going to break, they break sooner rather than later. At least from my experience with three failures.

Wow, I'm surprised you're not overly irritated. I'm kind of irritated and this is my first. It's the gun I've totally relied on to work and I had not been carrying a BUG.

michpatriot, I was thinking about that the other day and I thought I remember someone saying those have different pins in them. Even though they are lw frames. I guess they're scandium plus aluminum. And the 360 also? Anyways. My thing is I'd rather have it heavier than lighter. I carry AIWB and it doesn't really need to be light.

If they give me an option to upgrade, I think I'll take it. I'm kind of in a moral dilemma about it right now because there isn't much extra money in our budget. My Daughter needs braces and she also recently lost her glasses. Grrrrrrrr..... I'm hoping they turn up so I don't have to pay for new ones.

So the extra 200 dollars could always be spent on "practical" things.

 

[michpatriot]

Wow, I'm surprised you're not overly irritated. I'm kind of irritated and this is my first. It's the gun I've totally relied on to work and I had not been carrying a BUG.

michpatriot, I was thinking about that the other day and I thought I remember someone saying those have different pins in them. Even though they are lw frames. I guess they're scandium plus aluminum. And the 360 also? Anyways. My thing is I'd rather have it heavier than lighter. I carry AIWB and it doesn't really need to be light.

If they give me an option to upgrade, I think I'll take it. I'm kind of in a moral dilemma about it right now because there isn't much extra money in our budget. My Daughter needs braces and she also recently lost her glasses. Grrrrrrrr..... I'm hoping they turn up so I don't have to pay for new ones.

So the extra 200 dollars could always be spent on "practical" things.

Totally understand..I've got 4 daughters myself..Lol! Maybe the smith could be convinced to replace the stud with a titanium one? I think that when they replace the stud it is kind of a big job because on the outside where you see the other end of the stud, the new stud sticks out and has to be shaved/ machined down after installation. Maybe if you told them that you would be OK with a little bit of different look on the pin surface on the outside of the frame and they did not have to do a total refinish on the blue/black coating they would do a titanium pin replacement and not total the frame..it would be worth a try, ask for a call from the smith that is going to do the work..you might be surprised.

 

[ABPOS]

Well, I talked with them today. I had an excuse to call because I was checking on a manufacturing date on another J frame I'm looking to buy.

They said my gun went over to the performance center guys on monday.

 

[AJ]

I have a 342, so am watching this thread with interest. Several hundred rounds through mine, so far no problems. My BUG to the 342 is a 36 for CCW.

 

[ABPOS]

Well, I doubt it's really all that regular. Just be sure if you ever open it up not to cycle the action. Although the thing is I think your gun has titanium pins. One of the upgrades of the 357 airweights. So I think you're even safer and probably can cycle the action with the mainspring still in. Although I personally would find out for sure from an armorer or the performance center before doing it.

 

[dr. mordo]

I had a trigger pin break on a M29-10, and they replaced the pin and reblued the gun for free.

I called for preauthorization, and after that there was no communication at all until I got the gun back.

 

[ABPOS]

Did they send the gun directly to you Dr. Mordo? I'm a bit concerned because the Smith lady said it's coming back straight to me but couldn't tell me what was done or what was coming back....

 

[ABPOS]

Meh, I called back because I thought it was weird. She said it was out for shipping but couldn't tell me what was done. I called back and the next guy said they didn't do anything with it yet and it's not out for shipping. So..... Oh well. Whatever. I guess more patience is in order.

Boooooo....

 

[dr. mordo]

Did they send the gun directly to you Dr. Mordo? I'm a bit concerned because the Smith lady said it's coming back straight to me but couldn't tell me what was done or what was coming back....

No, as I recall they sent it to my FFL.

 

[smithman 10]

Hammer stud

A few years back I had the hammer stud break on my Model 15 4" revolver, which I had bought new in 1995.

Put a gazillion rounds through it, but mostly wadcutters and other standard pressure loads.

I sent it back to Smith and they wanted $ to fix it - UNTIL I asked them if they wanted folks to think that a hammer stud breaking was to be expected sometimes. Guess that made an impression on them because they eventually saw it my way and replaced it no charge.

Pressed a new one in - you can see the hole for it on the left side. Still working fine since I had it fixed but I must say I was surprised to have it happen on an all steel gun that had always been treated right.

 

[ABPOS]

They better at least fix it. I'm assuming they will. As they have with everyone else's on here. I think the first lady just didn't know what she was talking about. The 2nd guy seemed to be looking deeper into it and the first lady was real quick about it. So....

Anyways....

 

[Jdomin]

Smith and Wesson stands behind the guns they sell, even if your not the original owner. They have a great customer service department, and will refer you to someone who can understand your problem.

 

[ABPOS]

I hope you are right Jdomin.

 

[ABPOS]

S&W Gun Processing <[email protected]>

11:38 AM (1 hour ago)

to me

Dear Mr. Rea,



We are contacting you in regards to the firearm you returned to our facility for repair. The evaluation performed by our gunsmiths has determined that your firearm is unrepairable. The frame was damaged and was deemed not covered by warranty process.



Because we value you as a customer we would like to offer you a replacement firearm at a reduced cost, a new Model 442, SKU 150544, would be $357.00 plus any applicable tax and $15.00 shipping.



If you wish to take advantage of the offer please provide me with the name of the FFL dealer (city and state) you would like to use to accept this replacement. The FFL dealer will contact you to pick up the firearm once it is delivered.



**Please note: if there is anything you would like ANY AFTER MARKET GRIPS/SIGHTS returned to you off your firearm, please let me know as when you respond to this email.**



If you do not wish to take advantage of the offer, please let me know as soon as possible and we will return the firearm to you.



Regards,



Gun Processing Department

Sarah M. J. Harrop

Smith and Wesson/Thompson Center

Customer Service

Tel: (800)331-0852 x4042

Fax: (413)747-3317

cid:2C896679-02B1-4591-B929-FA193893D51F




This message, including all attachments: (i) May contain technical data as defined in the International Traffic In Arms Regulations (ITAR) 22 CFR 120.10. Export of this material is restricted by the Arms Export Control Act (22 U.S.C. 2751 et seq.) and may not be exported or transferred to non-U.S. persons without prior written approval from the U.S. Department of State; and (ii) Is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this communication in error, please delete it and notify the sender immediately. Thank you.
James J Rea

1:02 PM (0 minutes ago)

to S&W
I'm going to tell you a little story.

My Step Father, James Rhiner who lived in Franklin, Wisconsin at his passing, he was a California Highway Patrolman in the 1960's. He carried a Model 19 and has always been a proponent of your products. A few years before he passed away he bought this 442. Along with an M&P .45 full size with a safety. He also bought an M&P 9mm for his wife, my Mom and the polymer bodyguard revolver for her. All new, in the matter of a couple of years. I was handed down his Model 19 at his passing and I bought the 442 from my Mom because she could use the money. It was nice of her to pass down the Model 19 for no cost to me.

I like your guns. But I have to say that if this is how Smith and Wesson rewards people's business and loyalty, I am not a fan. I have been very active on www.smith-wessonforum.com and AR15.Com - Your Firearm Resource. (AR-15, AR-10, M4, M16, AK-47, and More!) and have been a proponent of your products. I even started drawing your guns last year when I was having some health struggles. You can see a few of the drawings here and an article written on The Firearm Blog about drawing them:

POTD: Drawing Smith & Wesson Revolvers For Art Therapy -The Firearm Blog

People are going to hear about your service to me and I am probably going to stop defending your company every time someone bad mouths you guys for having a lock on most of the new guns. Which is a huge issue for people. And my next gun will be a Ruger. I even bought a used 637 to use as my carry gun as I was waiting to see what happens with this one.

First off, if you're not going to cover it, I want mine back. I might try to source a frame and use the parts from this gun.
Secondly, I think it would at least be appropriate for you to replace the frame at no charge. If you're not going to do that I'd think the next best step would be to sell me a frame at a discount and not a whole gun. I can buy a new one at a dealer close to me for not that much more than what you're offering me. It doesn't seem to be like much of a discount. I think the stud pin breaking is an inherent flaw in your design and they should at least use steel studs in the airweights to alleviate that.

So if you're not going to do any of that, just send me my gun back and know you have lost a customer. I believe mine and my Step Dad's loyalty was misplaced. I nearly bought an SP101 before I bought this one from my Mom. Which I think would've been a better move in the long run. I do no regret it because she needed the money.

I had also bought my Step Dad's .45 M&P from her and I have to say it was a very inaccurate gun, in my hands. Compared to pretty much any other auto I have owned and shot. I sold it relatively quickly after acquiring it.

I do not mean to come off as a jerk and I don't want to make you feel personally responsible Sarah. I know you're just the messenger. But maybe you could either make a case for what I'm asking for with your superiors or at the very least communicate my disappointment in their polices and how they've treated this situation. It would be nice if my plea is fruitful and you all decide to do one of the options I've presented. Because I would also like to continue to be a loyal customer. But I will choose to not if this is normal practices for Smith and Wesson. I realize I'm not the original owner but for crying out loud my Step Dad was.

Sincerely,

James J. Rea

 

[ABPOS]

Not happy at all. I may end up a Ruger guy after this..... Ugh. Don't really want to be. I like being here with all of you but this is irritating.

 

[wrangler5]

Looks like you could get a NEW 642 from Buds for $299 (cash price) with free shipping and a $30 rebate.

But - since when is a 442 not covered by the lifetime warranty for which S&W is so famous?

 

[Bill Lear]

That's a shame, I wonder why they don't think it's covered?

The problem with these alloy J-frames is that the steel pin is pressed into the left side but depending on tolerances, has anywhere from less stabilization on the right side, to very little. So every time that hammer goes back and forth under tension, the hammer is applying an "orbital" force to the steel hammer pin, which in turn carries this force into the much weaker alloy frame wall. Regardless of whether S&W warrants their guns for life or the life of the Universe, "high mileage" alloy J-frames are going to have a lot of fractured out hammer pins! The alloy frame really should NOT be shot a lot. Even back in the golden days of revolvers, 5,000 rounds of "magnum" loads was enough to ruin an all-steel revolver, and though the 38 special isn't a magnum cartridge, in relation to the 2 ounce weight of the alloy 442's "frame" it's actually worse than a magnum! And whether a bullet leaves the barrel with each trigger cycle, or the hammer just goes back and drops, the same amount of "wrenching" force is carried into the left frame wall. So 1,000 rounds fired combined with 10,000 "dry fires" really does equal 11,000 stress cycles on the hammer pin.

You gun is fixable, just not in the way S&W originally made it, and S&W isn't in the business of engineering custom solutions, so they just offer you a new gun at a price they figure you'll pay and go on your way.

To an enthusiast with the tools and knowledge however, your gun could easily be put back into service.

The break is where the steel pin is pressed into the alloy frame wall. Any half-way decent machinist can have your gun functioning, which is worth keeping in mind as opposed to just putting it in a box somewhere.

The simplest approach is to mount the right side plate, and center the left side off the right. Then drill out the left side just large enough to remove the damage, and drill through the right side plate using a decimal bit of 0.122", or if that can't be found, drill the RSP oversize as well. Then turn a new hammer pin from tool steel with a 2-step flange on one end. The flange will fit the enlarged left side hole, with a larger "rim" that overlaps the left frame wall. A really trick approach would be to create a shallow counter-bore on the left frame outside wall for the new hammer pin "rim" to sit flush. On the other side, the pin is drilled and tapped for a small machine screw - either of stock profile, or something more custom with a thin "rim" and torx drive. As on the left side, the RSP outside could be slightly recess bored for the screw to sit flush. If you had to drill the RSP oversize, then a steel bushing can be pressed in, then taper reamed to match the hammer pin diameter.
You now have a BETTER system than S&W built because you have a steel pin fully supported and anchored "through" both sides. Done well, the job would look slick and very custom.

 

[GeoJelly]

Bad news sir - Sorry to hear this! As much as I like S&W’s, and SWF, Ruger’s LCR’s hold up really well - and Ruger backs them up. I recently picked up a very nice 37 from another member here - Who, ironically, lives in the same neighborhood. I really like it, and it’s a keeper, but it shows a ton of wear on the recoil shield from the cylinder rotating against it - and a gouge in the shield where the cylinder pin rubs while opening and closing. Fast forward to my .22 LCR - also bought used. Because Ruger uses a hard coat on the aluminum, it only has a bright spot in the same area - and no gouge. All three of my LCR‘s (two .22’s and one .38) use a hardened (steel, I’m not sure) center pin bushing instead of just a hole in the aluminum recoil shield on the cheaper S&W’s. S&W does use a steel bushing there on my 360J and the other Scandium J’s. I could go on and on, Ruger uses a titanium center pin on (at least) their CF LCR’s so the cylinders do not unlock during the recoil. Sure, LCR’s aren’t sexy or slim like the S&W’s but they just keep on ticking. All of this doesn’t do a lick of good for you at this point . I would suggest looking around for a used 360J (or another Scandium) rather than one of the $299 S&W’s from Bud’s ... or, even better, a used LCR. They go for around $350 - 400 around here.

 

[ABPOS]

Yeah, if they don't make it right, my next carry revolver is an LCR. I don't think I'll get rid of the 637 just yet. It shoots well.