Handgun in another city or destination

[MajorD]

Arizona is good to go. No hassles I can think of - I have a friend who lives in a very anti gun state and when he travels to visit I hand him a spare gun to throw in his pocket while he is here no big deal.
I don’t see any difference ( and it would be splitting the hairs pretty fine) between buying a gun and loaning it to my visitor versus you buying a gun and leaving it in your daughters safe.
It would be no different than the “ vacation home/ cabin” example above.
Asking a state agency or lawyer is a bit much. With so many government employees either hostile to the 2A or simply ignorant of the rules, ( sadly the same with a lot of lawyers unless they specialize in gun law issues) for them the easy button is to say no, even if it is perfectly legal.
The state my friend visits from and where I used to live before I escaped was NY. There was a hot line you could call to get input when they passed the infamous safe act in 2012. You could call the hotline 3 times ask the same question and get 3 different answers. I would NOT trust a government agency to give you proper guidance

 

[Photog]

I guess the question I have is this; is there any law, federal or state(s), that states it is illegal to own a handgun that is not in your immediate presence or residence? I know several people, who when moving with a collection of firearms have sent them to a dealer in the state they are moving to, so as not to have to worry about putting them in a moving van, or even a U-Haul type trailer they are using. A lot of states do not require any special background check or paperwork if you are transferring a firearm to an immediate family member. So, you transfer it to your child, and then use it when you are in the state they reside. I also could find no laws stating that my child cannot let me use one of their firearms when I am visiting.

 

[max503]

I do not see any problem what so ever. Why would it be? I leave a gun at my daughter's in another state. It stays locked up there when I'm not around.

What's the issue? I don't get it.

Sounds like a good idea to me.

 

[Data]

I do not see any problem what so ever. Why would it be? I leave a gun at my daughter's in another state. It stays locked up there when I'm not around.

What's the issue? I don't get it.

Sounds like a good idea to me.

Well, if the firearm is used in self-defense, the owner will have a lot of explaining to do which could be a legal nightmare and reality. I am guessing that he'll have to explain how the firearm crossed the border if he is flying back and forth. Do you suppose a good investigator will not verify flight records and so on? Also, what would happen if the firearm is stolen from his daughter's place of residence? ... and then is used in a serious crime?? Something to consider for sure.

I think it's better to travel with the firearm legally (even though it's a pain in the *) ...every time the owner wants to visit his daughter's state of residence. I think leaving his firearm in another state is not a good idea. I think there are too many things that could go wrong. Yes, it all sounds like an inconvenience, but it's much better to establish good credibility in the beginning, rather than wait and deal with the proverbial fan if things go south.

Well, that is just my two cents worth.

 

[colt_saa]

Well, if the firearm is used in self-defense, the owner will have a lot of explaining to do which could be a legal nightmare and reality.

Says who?

Do you really believe that Citizens are only allowed to defend themselves and others from bodily injury with things that they personally own? If you were attacked at a construction sight and picked up a hammer, 2x4 or piece of rebar to fend off your attacker with is the owner of the item that you use somehow in trouble in your eyes?

Legal Nightmare? Please state what Law you think is being Broken? Federal Law? State Law? Local Law?

Also, what would happen if the firearm is stolen from his daughter's place of residence? ... and then is used in a serious crime?? Something to consider for sure.

What would happen is that you would call the police and report it, then get a copy of the report so that you could file your insurance claim.

Absolutely no different than if your Car was stolen

I think leaving his firearm in another state is not a good idea. I think there are too many things that could go wrong.

What could go wrong with your firearm that would be any different than with your Daughter's firearm?

 

[Data]

Says who?

Do you really believe that Citizens are only allowed to defend themselves and others from bodily injury with things that they personally own? If you were attacked at a construction sight and picked up a hammer, 2x4 or piece of rebar to fend off your attacker with is the owner of the item that you use somehow in trouble in your eyes?

Legal Nightmare? Please state what Law you think is being Broken? Federal Law? State Law? Local Law?

What would happen is that you would call the police and report it, then get a copy of the report so that you could file your insurance claim.

Absolutely no different than if your Car was stolen
What could go wrong with your firearm that would be any different than with your Daughter's firearm?

As always, I appreciate responses from forum members here whether I agree with them or not. Take note that sometimes I may respond in rhetorical manner and for the sake of general discussion so that the original poster can draw his or her own conclusion to the question they posted.

Any rate, You’ve raised some interesting points. The laws regarding self-defense and firearm ownership can vary greatly depending on the jurisdiction. In many places, a person is allowed to use reasonable force to protect themselves or others, even if the object used for defense doesn’t belong to them. However, the specifics can be complex and are often subject to interpretation by courts.

As for the scenario of a firearm being stolen and used in a crime, you’re correct that the standard procedure would be to report the theft to the police and potentially file an insurance claim. The legal implications for the owner of the stolen firearm can depend on various factors, such as local laws and the circumstances of the theft.

Leaving a firearm in another state could potentially introduce complications, depending on the laws of that state and the specifics of the situation. It’s always a good idea to be aware of and comply with all relevant laws and regulations when it comes to firearm ownership and storage.

Please note that this is a general discussion and may not apply to specific situations or jurisdictions. For legal advice, it’s always best to consult with a qualified legal professional.

Stay safe,
Data

 

[BC38]

Says who?

Do you really believe that Citizens are only allowed to defend themselves and others from bodily injury with things that they personally own? If you were attacked at a construction sight and picked up a hammer, 2x4 or piece of rebar to fend off your attacker with is the owner of the item that you use somehow in trouble in your eyes?

Legal Nightmare? Please state what Law you think is being Broken? Federal Law? State Law? Local Law?

What would happen is that you would call the police and report it, then get a copy of the report so that you could file your insurance claim.

Absolutely no different than if your Car was stolen
What could go wrong with your firearm that would be any different than with your Daughter's firearm?

LOL, so you really think the authorities don't look at rebar, 2x4's, hammers, and cars differently than guns, huh? Never heard of an FBI criminal background check being required for buying any of those items.

Interesting perspective. Can't say I agree, but interesting nonetheless.

 

[MDB1056]

"There is no Federal Law that prohibits you from keeping a firearm elsewhere. Just make sure you abide by State and Local laws and this is not big deal"

Best words posted in this thread IMO. We're making this WAY too complicated. There is nothing preventing this at all as long as you are abiding by State laws, but that goes without saying. Attempting to have this discussion with the state Atty General or any atty for that matter would be a frustration beyond comprehension. Having another firearm in another location is no big deal, again as long as not illegal for you to own/possess one in that state. Simple.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Well, I did it once, actually, some years ago. Long story made short, I traveled via airplane to visit friends in the hills (mountains?) north of Fort Collins, Colorado. As they lived in deep woods I was advised to bring a reasonable weapon for lounging on the back porch on a summer evening in case of bobcats, mountain lions (which I saw outside their sliding glass back door), maybe a bear (it's bear country). I selected my Ruger Service Six .357 Magnum for various reasons (not to start a bear thread here; let it go! ) and I also brought one of my mouse guns for general concealed carry. I left the revolver there for my next visit. Subsequently, I think that Colorado passed a stupid law requiring Form 4473s for transfers between individuals but, in reality, I did not give my revolver to my friends, I merely left it there. As luck would have it they moved to Georgia and my gun moved with them. C'est la vie! Maybe I'll get to Georgia someday......

 

[sigp220.45]

Molehill, meet mountain.

I fly to visit my son in New Orleans. I know I could check a gun, but its easier just to borrow one of his when I’m there. I carry under LEOSA.

If I shoot somebody in New Orleans the least of NOPD’s concerns will be how the gun got there.

I’ve investigated at least 100 shootings, probably more. None of the stuff you guys are hyperventilating over was ever a factor.

 

[colt_saa]

LOL, so you really think the authorities don't look at rebar, 2x4's, hammers, and cars differently than guns, huh? Never heard of an FBI criminal background check being required for buying any of those items.

Interesting perspective. Can't say I agree, but interesting nonetheless.

At least in Florida we look at every weapon involved in an incident where great bodily injury is involved equally no matter if the FBI did a criminal check on it's purchase or not.

If things are different under the laws of Washington State I am open to being Enlightened. I admit to having remained in the Dark regarding the laws of Draconian Governments more than 2000 miles from me

But the car reference was to what happens with a "stolen gun" and there is no difference in what the owner should do

The 2x4 and rebar reference was to Legal Troubles as a result of the need to use a Firearm that you did not own. There is no more legal trouble defending yourself with a firearm that you do not own as opposed to a base ball bat that you do not own......ownership has nothing to do whatever legal trouble might ensue. That is the point of my statement

 

[BC38]

At least in Florida we look at every weapon involved in an incident where great bodily injury is involved equally no matter if the FBI did a criminal check on it's purchase or not.

If things are different under the laws of Washington State I am open to being Enlightened. I admit to having remained in the Dark regarding the laws of Draconian Governments more than 2000 miles from me

But the car reference was to what happens with a "stolen gun" and there is no difference in what the owner should do

The 2x4 and rebar reference was to Legal Troubles as a result of the need to use a Firearm that you did not own. There is no more legal trouble defending yourself with a firearm that you do not own as opposed to a base ball bat that you do not own......ownership has nothing to do whatever legal trouble might ensue. That is the point of my statement

...and there's the rub. Your reply seems to assume that all jurisdictions have the same laws, and view gun-related questions in the same light.

Unfortunately they DON'T.

Defending yourself with a firearm in a Castle Doctrine state vs. a Requirement to Retreat state are two completely different scenarios.

States, and even local jurisdictions within a state, that support the 2nd Amendment, are completely different than states that are hostile to 2nd Amendment rights.

If Florida views self defense with a baseball bat the same as self defense with a borrowed firearm, that is GREAT! I kinda doubt that both would be treated the same, but if you say so...

However, in a LOT of states, and even local jurisdictions within some states, that just ain't the way it works. It should - but it doesn't. Some jurisdictions are so hostile to 2nd Amendment rights that they will pursue charges against anyone using a firearm in self defense - if there is any spin they can use to justify it.

In that case, add in the complications of self defense with a gun by an out of state resident, who doesn't have a state issued CCW permit, and using a gun that doesn't belong to them, and it sure seems to me like the situation gets even more complicated and perilous real quick.

But again, I'm no lawyer, and YMMV.

P.S. Not all governments with "Draconian" gun laws are 2000 miles away from you. NY and Chicago are both a LOT closer to Florida than that.

 

[colt_saa]

...and there's the rub. Your reply seems to assume that all jurisdictions have the same laws, and view gun-related questions in the same light.

Unfortunately they DON'T.

However, in a LOT of states, and even local jurisdictions within some states, that just ain't the way it works. It should - but it doesn't. Some jurisdictions are so hostile to 2nd Amendment rights that they will pursue charges against anyone using a firearm in self defense - if there is any spin they can use to justify it.

P.S. Not all governments with "Draconian" gun laws are 2000 miles away from you. NY and Chicago are both a LOT closer to Florida than that.

First I want to apologize to Banjo 10-79 since this thread has devolved away from his initial post

But I am going to respond to you anyway

Of course I do not believe that all States have the same laws, my response in no way implied that kind of thinking on my part.

If your statement were true in any sense, why would I specifically ask you to enlighten me on the laws of Washington State and even admit that I do not pay too much attention to Draconian States that I never plan on going to

But instead of enlightening me and your other Fellow Forum Members you chose to rant. If you want to take a chill pill and tell us about where you live I think that we would all like to hear about it. I know we have a member that would like to visit Seattle at some point, he even told me about Spokane so he can visit the home of Bing Crosby, he is a Big Fan

I am sorry that you do not want to hear how nice it is in Florida but I can not control your feelings on such things.

If citizens do not like the laws that their Elected Officials have implemented, they should work towards getting them voted out of office. That IS America. If you live somewhere that the people that think like your enemy GREATLY out number the people that think like you, then you can always move and be happier.

I am well aware of Draconian Laws in Chicago, I was born Downtown at 11 minutes past noon less than two blocks from one of the City's Great Pizzerias. I grew up in that City. Firearms Laws are why I left Illinois decades ago and chose to live in a FREE State instead. Thankfully the 2010 case McDonald v. City of Chicago has greatly improved thing there, but not enough to get me to go back to live in SNOW for multiple months even though I miss the Parks and the Museums

I am also well aware of at least NYC, I have been there many times, the only issue I encountered was at the Empire State building not too long after 9/11. They had just had a firearms suicide on the observation deck and were even having the off duty LEOs check their weapons at the base of the building. I was with several family members so I did not push the issue and just complied

I know that upstate is much friendlier but vacation and travel have never taken me there

I do get well versed on the local statutes in places where I am going. Just a habit

If you do not want to tell us about Washington then this can all end with this post and I am sorry that I angered you. It was certainty not my intent

 

[Inusuit]

I would probably contact the AZ Attorney General’s office for a legal opinion, and possibly the city or county attorney where your sister resides.

I don't know about Arizona. In Wyoming, the AG will not give a legal opinion to a private citizen. I'm also suspicious of the knowledge of local city/county attorneys in this case. And law enforcement officers likewise.

That said, I have no advice.

 

[Inusuit]

I don’t have any knowledge or opinion about leaving a gun. I would sell her the gun for $2 and transfer it to her and use it when you are there.

Depends on what you mean by transfer. I think if the handgun crosses state lines, the transfer must be done through an FFL. I can't give my son handguns because he lives 50 miles away but in a different state.

 

[BE Mike]

As has been stated previously. I think that you are overthinking this. Make sure that it is legal for you to carry in Arizona and read up on the state's firearm laws. Leaving your firearm in Arizona, locked up with adult supervision would be a non-issue. Any shoot, in any state, is going to open a can of legal worms. All any reasonable person can do when defending his/ her life or the life of an innocent third party is to do the right thing and let the chips fall where they may. Anyone arguing that some draconian laws should prevent a victim from protecting himself is basically saying that you shouldn't go about armed and put yourself at the mercy of a vicious attacker. I don't think that is a serious option.

 

[BC38]

First I want to apologize to Banjo 10-79 since this thread has devolved away from his initial post

But I am going to respond to you anyway

Of course I do not believe that all States have the same laws, my response in no way implied that kind of thinking on my part.

If your statement were true in any sense, why would I specifically ask you to enlighten me on the laws of Washington State and even admit that I do not pay too much attention to Draconian States that I never plan on going to

But instead of enlightening me and your other Fellow Forum Members you chose to rant. If you want to take a chill pill and tell us about where you live I think that we would all like to hear about it. I know we have a member that would like to visit Seattle at some point, he even told me about Spokane so he can visit the home of Bing Crosby, he is a Big Fan

I am sorry that you do not want to hear how nice it is in Florida but I can not control your feelings on such things.

If citizens do not like the laws that their Elected Officials have implemented, they should work towards getting them voted out of office. That IS America. If you live somewhere that the people that think like your enemy GREATLY out number the people that think like you, then you can always move and be happier.

I am well aware of Draconian Laws in Chicago, I was born Downtown at 11 minutes past noon less than two blocks from one of the City's Great Pizzerias. I grew up in that City. Firearms Laws are why I left Illinois decades ago and chose to live in a FREE State instead. Thankfully the 2010 case McDonald v. City of Chicago has greatly improved thing there, but not enough to get me to go back to live in SNOW for multiple months even though I miss the Parks and the Museums

I am also well aware of at least NYC, I have been there many times, the only issue I encountered was at the Empire State building not too long after 9/11. They had just had a firearms suicide on the observation deck and were even having the off duty LEOs check their weapons at the base of the building. I was with several family members so I did not push the issue and just complied

I know that upstate is much friendlier but vacation and travel have never taken me there

I do get well versed on the local statutes in places where I am going. Just a habit

If you do not want to tell us about Washington then this can all end with this post and I am sorry that I angered you. It was certainty not my intent

You're stubbornly missing - or ignoring - my main point, and attempting to deflect the conversation.

It isn't about Washington's laws, or even your myopic "here in Florida" viewpoint. It isn't about researching the laws of the places we'd like to visit either (though that is obviously a good idea), or about anyone's FEELINGS about the patchwork of gun and self defense laws across the country, or any "anger" issues.

I'm talking about a bigger picture here. Just in case you missed my point the first time, there are places here in the good old USA, were people get prosecuted by anti-2nd Amendment DA's for defending themselves with their OWN legally-owned firearms in their OWN homes. Or have you somehow missed that fact?

So the bigger picture I'm referring to is this; in a self-defense scenario where you have to shoot an attacker, and you're not in your home state, so you don't have an in-state CCW permit, and you're also using a gun that doesn't even belong to you, IT IS PROBABLY GOING TO GET REALLY COMPLICATED REALLY FAST.

One hell of a lot more complicated than if you had used a baseball bat, or a hammer, or a 2x4, or even a piece of rebar to defend yourself. In many parts of this country you are NOT going to be given the benefit of the doubt. You're more likely to be presumed guilty, just because you used an EVIL gun for self-defense.

As we all know, guns are FAR more regulated than any of those other self-defense items. Due to their potential lethality, firearms are considered to be at the far end of the self-defense/force continuum. That being the case, the defensive use of a gun is automatically going to be subjected to a lot more intensive, critical, legal scrutiny than an otherwise similar self defense case involving other less-lethal means of self protection.

That is going to be true for virtually every jurisdiction around the country. Maybe not in Florida (or so you seem to believe), but certainly in most other places. Unfortunately, making a case for self defense isn't always as cut-and-dried as you seem to want it to be.

None of that is a rant. It is a simple statement of the FACTS.

Does any/all of that make sense to you?
If not, then there probably isn't anything I or anyone else can say or do to further "enlighten" you about the current state of affairs around our country.

 

[ispcapt]

None of that is a rant. It is a simple statement of the FACTS.

Please provide facts then. A statute? Case law?
So far it's only been rants which you claim as facts with nothing supporting it.
How many shooting investigations have you done?
How many court cases have you sat on?
Please provide a cite for these "facts" you mention where it is illegal leaving a gun in another state with relatives/friends who can legally possess firearms. Should be simple. All statutes are published.

 

[colt_saa]

So the bigger picture I'm referring to is this; in a self-defense scenario where you have to shoot an attacker, and you're not in your home state, so you don't have an in-state CCW permit, and you're also using a gun that doesn't even belong to you, IT IS PROBABLY GOING TO GET REALLY COMPLICATED REALLY FAST.

None of that is a rant. It is a simple statement of the FACTS.

That may be a Fact in your State.

But it totally outside the facts in at least half of America

We still do not even know if what you fear is actually Law where you live or not since you still choose not to enlighten us on that issue, even though I have asked you twice (three times if you count this post)

If your fears are based on actual events that have occurred to people in your State, by all means feel free to direct us to the News stories of those events.

I have no desire to debate beliefs or fears of what might happen.

I am sorry that I have angered you

 

[BC38]

Please provide facts then. A statute? Case law?
So far it's only been rants which you claim as facts with nothing supporting it.
How many shooting investigations have you done?
How many court cases have you sat on?
Please provide a cite for these "facts" you mention where it is illegal leaving a gun in another state with relatives/friends who can legally possess firearms. Should be simple. All statutes are published.

How about just a few instances of people being prosecuted for defending themselves?

Does the name Kyle Rittenhouse ring a bell?
How about George Zimmerman?
Jose Alba?
Marissa Alexander?
Kory Mattox?
Tracy McCarter?
Mark and Patricia McCloskey?

Like I said, I'm no lawyer - so asking me to cite the law is at best a rhetorical argument.

HOWEVER, it doesn't take more than a couple of minutes to find LOTS of examples of people who were prosecuted when they acted in self defense - though (fortunately) not all were convicted. Especially when they used a gun to defend themselves.