Hard Moves

[ColColt]

Some advice needed although I think I know the answer. I've kept a 4506 under my pillow for years with the magazine inserted and six rounds in it. Today I decided to take it out and clean and relube the barrel, slide and moving parts. I found taking it apart was more a task than it use to be with the slide being a bit stiff to pull back in order to remove the slide stop. Reassembly was just as tough.

I attribute all that to age. I'm nearly 78 now and don't have the strength in my hands I did 10-15 years ago. Would pulling the hammer back to ease some of the tension help with racking back the slide? That seems to work well with the 1911 and assume it will with the 4506(and 4516) also. Both are the best and most reliable pistols I've eve owned. I bought the 4506 back in the early 90s after reading it's virtues in Combat Handguns...never let me down.

 

[kraynky]

Wouldn't hurt to try it (with it unloaded), but I'm sure it would help lighten the pull when chambering a round.

I'm assuming you keep a round chambered and the hammer decocked when it's on standby. However, I've never been a big fan of a loaded gun under a pillow myself.

 

[ColColt]

Nope, I've never kept a round in the chamber. It takes less than a second to load one so I never did. That always made me a bit nervous even with the hammer down.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Would pulling the hammer back to ease some of the tension help with racking back the slide?

When you're handling an unloaded gun that's always a good choice if you have hand issues, whether weakness, arthritis, injury, etc.

It's also a good choice if you're loading a pistol that has a decocker - there's no point in fighting the hammer if you don't have to. Rack the slide/load the round, decock the hammer. That's what the decocker is for.

The real issue only arises if you're handling a double-action pistol that does NOT have a decocker. Then you have to be skilled at releasing the hammer gently by pressing the trigger with one hand whilst tightly gripping the hammer and slowly lowering it into what will be its double action position.

It's actually not as difficult as it sounds but it is dangerous and you have to be focused.

There's always cocked and locked, of course, which I personally despise, but 1911 fans love it and that's their choice.

I've never been a big fan of a loaded gun under a pillow myself.

It's not my favorite thing, either. I'm not concerned about a negligent discharge as I am about having to dig the gun out from under my head when I need it. It's way easier to keep it handy on a nightstand where it's easy to reach. Or even on the floor - or, better yet, in a made-for-a- bed holster.

Nope, I've never kept a round in the chamber. It takes less than a second to load one so I never did. That always made me a bit nervous even with the hammer down.

You've been wrong, then, for many years. Especially if you have weakness in your hands. You might be better off with a revolver, actually.

One presumes that you sleep alone, of course......

 

[ColColt]

I never cared much for the decocker and seldom ever used it. I hate that long first pull on the trigger but, a way around that is just cock the hammer for a SA trigger.

As much as I've loved the 1911 it made me jittery to keep a round in the chamber, cocked and locked...to each his own with that. I had my share of the 1911 with first introduction and love for it via the Army. I carried one as part of my security job but just with magazine inserted.

I've slept over 20 years with that pistol under my pillow and it doesn't bother me at all. Even if I had some wild nightmare, grabbed it and pulled the trigger nothing's going to happen as there's no round in the chamber nor hammer cocked/decocked.

I do have a Revolver(357) but when I thought of the extreme noise it would make indoors need I use it my already bad ears would be gone for sure so, that's a no-no for me. i can get on target faster and more accurately with the auto than any revolver. I'm no Jerry Miculek. Oh, yes I am alone-nearly six years now since I lost my Corgi.

 

[4T5GUY]

What lb. recoil spring is in it? Maybe go with a bit lighter spring? Light/wadcutter springs are plentiful and inexpensive. There is a big difference with new, full power recoil springs and wadcutters in racking the slide. (Or even putting things back together.)

Wolf has reduced ones from 8-12 lbs. They're saying factory weight is 14 but I'm pretty sure I have at least one new factory spring that is labeled 17 lbs.

Full factory/service loads might wear the slide stop eventually with a lighter recoil spring but it sounds like there's not much wear going on now anyway.

Oh, get another pup.

Jim

 

[SVT28]

If age or medical conditions hinder your cleaning of your home/self defense handgun, it's time to reconsider your go-to. Respectfully, if you have difficulty manipulating the basic operation of a handgun, it's time to consider something else. What if the semi auto jams, requiring quick action to resolve the issue? Could you do that in the middle of the night stressed in your use case?

There are many many reliable easy to use/clean/operate handguns on the market. The Shield EZ holds as many rounds as the 4506. Maybe consider a 1911 in 9mm? Life's short, I'm sure you may be retired or have just a part time job? Head over to your local range and pay $10 for unlimited range rentals (my range offers this). Try out a bunch of modern handguns, see what you shoot and like. The range officer may also show you how to disassemble the unloaded guns too!

Certainly keep the 4506 for range time and a rainy day. Maybe check out S&W's 8 shot 38/357 offerings too? A trigger spring kit may help with the DA trigger pull and you really can't get an easier loading and cleaning firearm than a revolver. They are also inherently safe and extremely reliable.

SVT28

 

[stansdds]

There is nothing wrong with cocking the hammer in order to chamber that first round from the magazine. Think about it, the hammer is going to get cocked even when starting with the hammer down. Just keep fingers out of the trigger guard and use the decocker/safety to safely lower the hammer.

If you think racking the slide of a 4506 with the hammer down is difficult, every try it with a Browning Hi-Power Mk III or any of the current production clones? Those things have something like a 32 pound hammer spring and an 18 pound recoil spring. I find it a struggle to chamber a round in one of those without first cocking the hammer.

 

[mikerjf]

I'm a little jittery too, but having a round chambered in that gun (decocked) wouldn't bother me a bit.

Maybe time to think about a 20 gauge, cruiser-ready?

 

[WR Moore]

My first and only attempt at the gun under the pillow didn't turn out well. It ended up at the foot of my sleeping bag. You might-so far-have mastered not moving the gun, but the night stand would be a better place. Much less lint there too.

In not much younger than you, the decocker/safety is your friend. One slip while doing the hammer/trigger thing, there's gonna be a loud noise and a hole somewhere.

Just because the revolver says .357 Magnum doesn't mean that's what you have to use. +P .38 Spl will work just fine if you put it in the right place. So far as the noise thing, regardless of what you use, Peltor makes a nice tactical muff (Tactical Pro MT15H7F SV). A touch of one button makes your hearing as good as it used to be-or better-and still protects your hearing from gunfire. Once set for volume, it retains the setting until you pull the batteries or they die.

 

[ColColt]

4T5GUY-It's always used the standard 16# spring and always worked good so, I saw no need to change it. I've used everything from 200gr SWCs to the notorious "Flying Ashtray" with equal reliability so, never saw a need to change it.

SVT28-No problem cleaning it, just the initial pulling back the slide to remove the slide stop pin. That pistol has been under my pillow for some years and I hadn't used it nor fired it in some time. Last time I cleaned it I didn't have any problems. I guess being retired some 10 years now I'm not as active and don't do much physical activity. That in part with age, I suppose, has slowed things down. I like the revolver but never could shoot one as quickly and accurately as the semi-auto.

mikerjf-I do have a Mossberg "Maverick" 12 gauge with 20" barrel-fairly light at around 6 pounds.

WR Moore-I do have the Reminigton 357ammo but also have +P in the chambers currently. Any weapon fired indoors is going to have your ears ringing for some time...hoping that never happens.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

.38 Special, HPs, 7 rounds, on the nightstand. Not the boom and recoil of a .357, no hassle with cocking, point and shoot and win.

This is ridiculous in my opinion:

I never cared much for the decocker and seldom ever used it. I hate that long first pull on the trigger but, a way around that is just cock the hammer for a SA trigger.

Cocking the hammer is useless if there is no round in the chamber and you said you don't have a round in the chamber. Further, that long double action trigger is your safety, especially if you've just been awakened by house goblins. Wheelguns at bedtime are the ticket!

 

[ralph7]

Some advice needed although I think I know the answer. I've kept a 4506 under my pillow for years with the magazine inserted and six rounds in it. Today I decided to take it out and clean and relube the barrel, slide and moving parts.

I wouldn't keep a freshly lubed anything in my bed.

 

[ColColt]

ISCS Yoda-Much to be said for the revolver. When I spoke of the decocker and disliking it I was mostly referring to being at the range-not in bed. I like the SA pull of the 4506 as it's as good as it gets for me(besides the 1911). For ease of operation as well as safety you can't beat a good ol' SA 45 Colt. That was my first home defense revolver.

I just cleaned and lubed the 4516-1 and for whatever the reason it was easier to dismantle than the 4506. Maybe I was just getting use to things again.

 

[4T5GUY]

4T5GUY-It's always used the standard 16# spring and always worked good so, I saw no need to change it.

Well yes of course. But you're original question was about your difficulty with disassembly/reassembly and or pulling the slide back to chamber the first round. A lighter recoil spring would help. So would a reduced lb hammer spring used in conjunction.

You don't have an issue with your 4516-1. Not sure what your 4506 is but I've extensively run my 4516-2 top end on my 4506-1 lower.

Jim

 

[BLUEDOT37]

Would pulling the hammer back to ease some of the tension help with racking back the slide?

When you're handling an unloaded gun that's always a good choice if you have hand issues, whether weakness, arthritis, injury, etc.

It's also a good choice if you're loading a pistol that has a decocker - there's no point in fighting the hammer if you don't have to. Rack the slide/load the round, decock the hammer. That's what the decocker is for.

Within the context of the Ops question this would certainly be a realistic order for these steps.

But for someone without dexterity issues (and for the sake of informing those who don't know) chambering & loading a round in a 3rd Gen pistol, equipped with a slide decocker, inside your house is more safely done by pushing the decocker lever down before you rack the slide.

With the decocker down the firing pin is blocked & the hammer hits the decocker's safety block after automatically decocking while racking the slide protecting the newly chambered round.
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The real issue only arises if you're handling a double-action pistol that does NOT have a decocker. Then you have to be skilled at releasing the hammer gently by pressing the trigger with one hand whilst tightly gripping the hammer and slowly lowering it into what will be its double action position.

I think you meant to say single-action pistol here.

Fully racking the slide of a DAO 3rd Gen essentially "automatically decocks" the hammer leaving it in a pre-cocked position (that reduces the trigger pull length & weight) and isn't designed to be further decocked.

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To answer your original question, yes, cocking the hammer before racking the slide will reduce the effort needed to do so.

4T5GUY's suggestion to install a reduced strength recoil and/or hammer spring would definitely help reduce the effort required & may be enough for you to rack the slide without cocking the hammer before.

I'd just add that if you do either or both springs that you thoroughly test your self-defense ammo with the changed setup to insure it functions properly with the changes before betting your life on it.

.

 

[chief38]

Some advice needed although I think I know the answer. I've kept a 4506 under my pillow for years with the magazine inserted and six rounds in it. Today I decided to take it out and clean and relube the barrel, slide and moving parts. I found taking it apart was more a task than it use to be with the slide being a bit stiff to pull back in order to remove the slide stop. Reassembly was just as tough.

I attribute all that to age. I'm nearly 78 now and don't have the strength in my hands I did 10-15 years ago. Would pulling the hammer back to ease some of the tension help with racking back the slide? That seems to work well with the 1911 and assume it will with the 4506(and 4516) also. Both are the best and most reliable pistols I've eve owned. I bought the 4506 back in the early 90s after reading it's virtues in Combat Handguns...never let me down.

When getting older you do lose hand strength and many times develop Carpal Tunnel also. Exercising your hands often becomes very important - not just for cocking guns. Get a rubber or spring type hand exerciser and use it daily. It will more than likely help a good deal! Practicing with the unloaded gun itself will also help.

 

[Brian Parrish]

I wholeheartedly concur with Chief38 post #17. The loss of grip strength is not something you must accept. And this is not the only area of activity where you are beginning to surrender to the weakness. From personal experience I say that subconsciously one finds ways to avoid doing things. Good news is that it will come back, though never like it was. The real strength that makes your body strong is your heart determination. I am 67 now with arthritis for decades. 5 years ago, I was all about lighter springs and thinner grips. It was a waste of money. Now I can rack the toughest slides easily and manipulate the hardest trigger with the tip of a finger either hand.

It was frustrating to work on this. I kept at it for a very long time, though it seemed as if I was making no progress. Then one day all of a sudden, it became easy.

Good luck. You will overcome!

 

[Fishinfool]

OP - Personally, I would keep the gun chamber loaded, hammer down. The long DA trigger pull is your safety. And I would always use the decocker feature on a loaded weapon. That long DA first shot trigger pull may make hitting targets at the range less accurate, but with adrenaline flowing, it wont effect your practical accuracy at across the room distances.

That said, if you are comfortable with the way you have been using your home defence handgun, then stick with it. I would make sure the hammer is cocked (on an EMPTY chamber) so as to ease slide operation, and keep the gun in a soft nylon holster to keep lint / debris to a minimum, considering the under pillow storage. Practice racking the slide quickly with the hammer already back ( on an empty gun).

Larry

 

[cd228]

To directly answer the op's question, yes cocking the hammer will reduce the amount of effort required to pull the slide back.

Given that you are better/more confident with a semi-auto, but you don't want to keep a round in the pipe, you may want to look at the S&W Shield EZE models. They are hammer fired, but the hammer is cocked by the grip safety, which would make it easier to rack the slide if you needed to due so in an emergency. You would gain ammo capacity, but drop in caliber.