Harley question...

[Bob R]

I can’t believe the Harley Tax hasn’t been mentioned yet.

I thought you were going to talk about the tariff that HD asked the .gov to put on imported bikes over 700cc back in the early 80's. That left me with quite the disdain of HD as a company. Well, that and the AMF years pretty much turned me away from HD's and I have never looked back.

Maybe I go out riding with my wife's hairdresser, she has a Road Glide she keeps trying to get me to ride. Maybe I should take her up on it and see what the fuss is all about these days. After all, it has been at least 40 years since I rode a HD.

bob

 

[Tech23]

As for my friend, we bought the Screamin Eagle branded (K&N) filter and wanted to put it in. We pulled the cover off and... There was a plastic shell cover. We removed that one... And there was plastic membrane of sorts. So we pulled that off and it revealed a wad of rubber tubing. We gently pulled more and more of it loose only to find one end not connected to anything. So we keep working at it making sure not to tug anything loose. And it falls out when we get most of it loose. The tube wasn't connected to anything... It just seemed to be plain black rubber tubing that was there to act as a filler presumably to restrict air flow. There was another plastic shell in the back so we removed that as well. Rubber tubing removed, we pulled the crummy paper filter and dropped in the good one. My Sportster is a 99 and his was a 2000. So we used mine as a guide as to what we were trying to make his look like. His was rated to be a California sales model so I guess it had something to do with air quality control standards. I haven't the slightest idea how restricting it like that would help, but it sure ran better once it could breathe better.

As for the "Harley Tax", that was just the first random link I found that had some info on it. What I was refering to was the crummy parts or missing parts they put on as "stock". They are so low quality it is almost a slap in the face. My bike came with a small hard vinyl single seat, terrible no grip rubber foot pegs, no passenger pegs, slippery cheap rubber handle bar grips, a single piston front brake, and more... I'm not trying to say I bought expensive chrome clad everything, I just wanted some grips my hands didn't slip off, foot pegs that the rubber didn't fall off when I leaned into a corner, and maybe a seat like my Kawi had that actually had some cushion under my butt. I spent the next couple of months finding more and more aggravating cheap or low tech lame parts that I replaced. Then I noticed the clutch cable was rubbing the paint since it wasn't properly attached to anything. Some touch up paint and a bracket later and I ended up replacing some more cables and adding some more brackets to make sure that didn't happen again anywhere else. It just feels the same to me as buying a twenty thousand dollar car that doesn't come with floor mats. It just isn't right.

And thank you for the sharpest tool in the shed comment, that was classy.

I'm sorry...I missed the part where "after reading the included instructions" you had difficulty with the air cleaner installation. Gently pulling is usually the best technique when you are just winging it....LOL. It must be OK if no hammers were needed.

I have had to go over every bike I ever bought...car and truck too for that matter. I just do it, sort of like protecting my investment. I don't whine about doing it...I just do it. You are aware that cars, trucks, motorcycles and guns are mass produced ...right. I'm sorry you bought a bike you don't like...it's commonly called buyers remorse. I can't believe an informed buyer would not notice things like...a small hard vinyl single seat, terrible no grip rubber foot pegs, no passenger pegs, slippery cheap rubber handle bar grips, a single piston front brake, and more...Did you buy this bike while blind folded?

rkrcpa...30 years!...congrats. That's a lot for an unreliable motorcycle....LOL.

Tech23

 

[dcxplant]

Hi Ed,

I've been riding over 40 years and have never been without a motorcycle since 5 years old.

In the stable right now is a Honda ST1300, a Suzuki VStrom 1000, and a Harley Deuce. Some may say for sport touring the ST is redundant to the VStrom...

I love my Harely, and it will be the one that stays as others come and go.

My first experience on a Harley was renting one in New Orleans. I rode about 300 miles and fell in love with it, and bought one the day I got home.

As I like to say, it's the most fun you could possibly have at 55MPH.

Harleys are the ultimate 55MPH machines. At that speed they potato potato on down the road, the suspension is not overworked and is in the zone, and the seat/bar/peg just plain fits and feels right. Plus, there is a tactile feeling of quality about them; steel parts not plastic, heavily plated chrome, thick paint. Plus they look pretty cool!

Mine has stock everything including the pipes. Don't let anyone tell you that you "need" to pipe it, chip it, dyno it, blah blah....

It is a machine that makes you smile and just plain feel good to ride on a beautiful day through the country at a sedate speed with no pressure to push the limits to have any fun-a Harley is always fun! Until about 70MPH....then it's just work. Push a Harley past 65 or so and it's not fun, the bike bottoms out on bumps, wallows through corners and takes waaaaaay too long to stop.

Keep it in the sweet spot of 40-60 and it'll reward you with a ton of fun per mile....it's a cruiser, right?!

Have fun, and don't ever rent one in the Rockies 'cause it may cost you twenty grand!

 

[cal50]

I've bought 3 new HD's over the years, and never felt like I didn't get good value for my dollar.

I will never buy another new one. I dislike the dealer network and a few years back when you waited a year or more to pay retail for a bike thats nuts. Several dealers thought they were doing you a favor by letting you in the shop.

When I get another one I will look for a used but not abused Road King.

My favorite all time bike is the newer BMW's. A LOT of engineering and performance per dollar.

 

[Fishslayer]

The Harley tax. I remember that.

I like to point that out as an early .gov bailout when the fanbois get into that "rugged independance" mode.

Nonconformist bad boys? hehe... try showing up in violation of the Harley dress code. I like to ask how long they had to prospect for that huge gold HOG patch...

I went through the whole Harley schlamazel at MMI in Phoenix. When some of the "gearheads" would wax verbose about the mountainous Hog motors they were gonna build I would point out that I could go drop $3K in the Bike Trader and buy a bike that would burn the paint off any Harley going.

They didn't much like that...

 

[Fishslayer]

In the stable right now is a Honda ST1300, a Suzuki VStrom 1000, and a Harley Deuce. Some may say for sport touring the ST is redundant to the VStrom...

I woulda probly given that "Deuce" name a little more thought...

I think the VStrom would be redundant to the ST. 1300cc V4 definitely puts the "tour" in sport tour.

Push a Harley past 65 or so and it's not fun, the bike bottoms out on bumps, wallows through corners and takes waaaaaay too long to stop.

Well set up FX or 1200 Sportster might change yer mind. Japanese brakes & suspension actually work!

Harley's brilliant. They finally come up with brakes & forks that work, so out comes the springer Softail with skinny front tire! LOL.

 

[Evil One]

NEWSFLASH!!!

There's more than just one model 'Harley'!

Saying ya rode 'a Harley' once and it didn't fit ya makes no sense.

Try reading my post again.
Notice where it said "many".
"Many" is different than "once".
I have tried sportsters, wide glides, soft tails, a road king, a V-rod...
The closest in riding position for me was an XR1200, however it wasn't quite right.
Instead of defending things that dont need to be defended... how about accepting that when people say they have tried many variations on a theme... and it doesnt work for them, that maybe... MAYBE... they know what they are talking about.


Jim

 

[ridewv]

I thought you were going to talk about the tariff that HD asked the .gov to put on imported bikes over 700cc back in the early 80's. That left me with quite the disdain of HD as a company. Well, that and the AMF years pretty much turned me away from HD's and I have never looked back.

Maybe I go out riding with my wife's hairdresser, she has a Road Glide she keeps trying to get me to ride. Maybe I should take her up on it and see what the fuss is all about these days. After all, it has been at least 40 years since I rode a HD.

bob

IMO at the time that was just the thing our government *should* have done. A couple years leading up to this the Japanese were truly dumping new bikes for only 50-70% of their already low retail. A retail that was already less than anywhere else in the world, including Japan itself. It absolutely helped enable HD to survive.
The cool thing was after a couple years HD petitioned the Government to end the temporary 5 year tariff ahead of schedule.

 

[Bob R]

IMO at the time that was just the thing our government *should* have done.

How many 750cc bikes was HD building at the time? Do you think by putting a large tariff on the >700cc bikes really made people buy HD instead of Japanese, or did it just keep people from buying motorcycles?

Here is a pretty good look at the tariff written in 1984. Remember this was written at the beginning of the tariff.

Taking America for a Ride: The Politics of Motorcycle Tariffs

The tariff did make the Japanese build 690-699cc bikes that would come in under the tariff. It wasn't just the Japanese that had to pay the tariffs, so did the Europeans. It also gave some breathing room to HD and maybe the tariff is what kept the creditors at bay until the company turned around.

And yes, HD did go to the .gov and ask that the tariff be lifted 1 year early. I don't feel the tariff is what brought HD out of the situation it was in. New owners, improved bikes and the reputation that the bike was of a higher quality is what I feel brought HD out of near folding. When AMF had the company it suffered because all they looked at was making money. Quality suffered and so did the reputation of HD. The standing joke back then was, "Why are their still Harley's on the road? Because the tow trucks haven't arrived yet".

It took a few years but they fought against that reputation, improved engineering and made a bike that people would look at and sometimes buy.

We are now in nearly the same situation as the very early 80's. The economy is in the dumps, motorcycle sales are in the toilet, dealerships are closing or being sold, there is a glut of new HD's on the showroom floors. I don't know how they will weather this turn-down, but I am sure they will. I just think there will be a lot less dealerships in the future.

Image is another issue. Right now most HD riders are probably 40+ years old (if not older). It is perceived as an old geezer bike, rather than the bike of the rebels as it was decades ago. A young guy coming up now will see the HD riders and may feel he does not want a HD because of the perception it is for older riders. I would love to see them start marketing to the younger rider, but even if they did, could a 20-25 y/o really afford one?

It is a conundrum, I would hate to see HD go under, and I don't think it will. After all, they are one of the true American motorcycle makers that have been around forever. In fact they are the only one IMO. Indian tried a comeback, that didn't work. Victory, while made in the USA is IMO just riding on HD's coat tails.

Right now the stock is running near its 52 week high of a little over 43 dollars so there is still plenty of investor interest in HD, and that might be what saves it. They may have to cut into their offerings to get through the lean years but I think they will be around for a while yet.

bob

 

[ridewv]

How many 750cc bikes was HD building at the time? Do you think by putting a large tariff on the >700cc bikes really made people buy HD instead of Japanese, or did it just keep people from buying motorcycles?
bob

Bob,

People had already been buying less motorcycles, the motorcycle market was in decline. Wouldn't you agree that a 4 cylinder, 750cc motor would be competitive with HD's 1,000cc 2-valve twins of the time?

Sure I think the tariff did help. In 1981 the Japanese had 108,000 unsold heavy weight (over 700cc) units. In 1982 it almost doubled to 200,000. But they didn’t stop. In fact they introduced a total of 117 new models in 1982 and 119 new models in 1983.

I’m sure some were (I know I was) considering a Harley (or BMW) for $5,000 or a Suzuki GS 1000 for $3300. When Suzuki dumped them and dealers were selling new GS 1000’s for $1,895 Suzuki lost money. But they could afford to and they took the sale. HD, Triumph, and BMW couldn’t. This really hurt the traditional manufacturers who couldn’t compete with this dumping.
I believe the tariff only applied after the first 5,000-6,000 bikes each manufacturer imported per year.

 

[dcxplant]

I woulda probly given that "Deuce" name a little more thought...

I think the VStrom would be redundant to the ST. 1300cc V4 definitely puts the "tour" in sport tour.




Well set up FX or 1200 Sportster might change yer mind. Japanese brakes & suspension actually work!

Harley's brilliant. They finally come up with brakes & forks that work, so out comes the springer Softail with skinny front tire! LOL.

You're right! That XR is pretty sharp, and it has a racing series as well. I wonder what they were thinking putting the oil cooler on like that tho...

Deuce name, I know, maybe that's why they didn't sell very many...I can here it now, "dang guys, I dropped my Deuce" But I love it anyway.

As to the uniform, I don't look good in pirate outfits since past about six years old, so I wear kevlar jeans, Sidi Combat Lite boots, and either a leather jacket or kevlar mesh jacket from Motoport (this item saved my life on a back road in Slovenia), and tan roper gloves, plus as always, my full face helmet.

A couple of friends tease me that I'm the "anti-Harley, Harley rider"

 

[dcxplant]

You're right! That XR is pretty sharp, and it has a racing series as well. I wonder what they were thinking putting the oil cooler on like that tho...

Deuce name, I know, maybe that's why they didn't sell very many...I can here it now, "dang guys, I dropped my Deuce" But I love it anyway.

As to the uniform, I don't look good in pirate outfits since past about six years old, so I wear kevlar jeans, Sidi Combat Lite boots, and either a leather jacket or kevlar mesh jacket from Motoport (this item saved my life on a back road in Slovenia), and tan roper gloves, plus as always, my full face helmet.

A couple of friends tease me that I'm the "anti-Harley, Harley rider"

ugh, quoted myself... Sorry, NOOB mistake...

I also want to add:

Making an 800 pound "faster" is a bit ridiculous, but each to his own. I really can't stand those super loud pipes either....really annoying on ANY vehicle-ever notice those stupid Civics etc with the buzzing bee mufflers?? Oh brother...

I loved it when Harley's new model the Fat Bob came out during the tariff years after reorganization. Named after the two bombs dropped on Nagasaki and Hiroshima! Try doing that today... all tongue in cheek I'm sure... For a while at Harley rallies they were burning Japanese bikes, they still do that?