Has anyone turn their 15-22 pistol into a SBR?

[Dirty*Harry]

I plan on drilling and threading the lower so I can add a buffer tube and stock.
Anyone else done this?
If so how did it go?
Post pictures.

 

[shawnr5]

Do a search and you'll find pictures of how I added a pistol buffer tube and a SIG arm brace to my pistol. It is NOT an SBR. That would require a Form 1 approval and tax stamp. Mine is a pistol.

 

[Dirty*Harry]

Shawn I found your thread. Great job! Your build gave me a good idea.
I'm going to tap the hole in the stock rear plug. I will attach it the same way you did but I will use a tapered head screw and counter sink the hole so I don't have to modify the bolt. I will turn down the other end of the plug to fit into a rifle buffer tube and weld it onto the tube.
Thanks for the ideas!!!

 

[sithlord]

Do a search and you'll find pictures of how I added a pistol buffer tube and a SIG arm brace to my pistol. It is NOT an SBR. That would require a Form 1 approval and tax stamp. Mine is a pistol.

I'm not saying that you are doing this but the ATF came out with an open letter indicating that shouldering a pistol using a stabilizing brace like the sb-15 constitutes 'redesign' such that the firearm falls under the NFA sbr regulations.

Just an FYI..

open letter

 

[HRArms]

I'm not saying that you are doing this but the ATF came out with an open letter indicating that shouldering a pistol using a stabilizing brace like the sb-15 constitutes 'redesign' such that the firearm falls under the NFA sbr regulations.

Just an FYI..

open letter

Beat me to it. Silly people asking silly questions could have the brace reclassified as a stock and anyone with one on a pistol, now has an unregistered SBR.

This letter could go even further. Simply shoulder firing a pustol, even without the brace, can be interpreted as altering the gunext into an SBR, or if you fire any pistol with 2 hands, you have altered it's intended use into a SBR.

Be carefull with the brace at public ranges.

 

[Brett248Vista]

Hope it was fun while it lasted..... I saw this coming!

 

[Kayback]

Most liberal interpretation of the word "redesign" I have ever seen, but yeah, this was always on the cards.

KBK

 

[RedNeck Jim]

This letter could go even further. Simply shoulder firing a pustol, even without the brace, can be interpreted as altering the gunext into an SBR,

OK... I'll bite. Upon reading your statement, my first thought is... well, duh! I don't have the 15-22 pistol but do have pistols & do have SBRs. Seems to me, if you shoulder fire something, then it is a rifle. Looks like some of you have been taking advantage of some loopholes in the laws, or of definitions in the laws, to build a SBR without stamps... and now are mad that the government finally caught on & corrected the issue.

These pics look identical to SBRs created by others here. Y'all knew you were creating "stamp free" SBRs and now you can't. Looks like the government used a basic test of inductive reasoning. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck & quacks like a duck... it's a duck.

 

[DCP]

OK... I'll bite. Upon reading your statement, my first thought is... well, duh! I don't have the 15-22 pistol but do have pistols & do have SBRs. Seems to me, if you shoulder fire something, then it is a rifle. Looks like some of you have been taking advantage of some loopholes in the laws, or of definitions in the laws, to build a SBR without stamps... and now are mad that the government finally caught on & corrected the issue.

These pics look identical to SBRs created by others here. Y'all knew you were creating "stamp free" SBRs and now you can't. Looks like the government used a basic test of inductive reasoning. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck & quacks like a duck... it's a duck.

I just love this,

Those are NOT SBR they are pistols. So no tax stamp needed.
I can NOT have A PISTOL with a Rifle stock or it is a SBR rifle.
I can legally Have a Pistol with a Sig Brace. SO NOTHING HAS CHANGED! So its not a duck its a SIG BRACE.

"ATF has previously determined that attaching the brace to a firearm does not alter the classification of the firearm or subject the firearm to National Firearms Act (NFA) control. However, this classification is based upon the use of the device as designed. When the device is redesigned for use as a shoulder stock on a handgun with a rifled barrel under 16 inches in length, the firearm is properly classified as a firearm under the NFA."

 

[RedNeck Jim]

So its not a duck its a SIG BRACE.

You know, looks like a stock to me... especially when shouldered. Doesn't look like a pistol. I'll call it a duck.

If you have any doubt about the intention of these making "stamp free" SBRs, just read the thread title. How do you turn a 15-22 PISTOL into a SBR?

 

[sithlord]

I just love this,

Those are NOT SBR they are pistols. So no tax stamp needed.
I can NOT have A PISTOL with a Rifle stock or it is a SBR rifle.
I can legally Have a Pistol with a Sig Brace. SO NOTHING HAS CHANGED! So its not a duck its a SIG BRACE.

"ATF has previously determined that attaching the brace to a firearm does not alter the classification of the firearm or subject the firearm to National Firearms Act (NFA) control. However, this classification is based upon the use of the device as designed. When the device is redesigned for use as a shoulder stock on a handgun with a rifled barrel under 16 inches in length, the firearm is properly classified as a firearm under the NFA."

You're right. Nothing has changed. EXCEPT in their previous letter, ATF was OK with occasional shouldering of a pistol that had a stabilizing brace. Now, if you are caught shouldering a pistol, or post a video of such, you are in violation of the NFA.

If you're strapping it to your forearm, then you are using it as intended. Sig arms, in their letter to ATF, did not indicate that the intended use was to shoulder the weapon and get around NFA laws. People misuse all manner of items all the time. Misusing a stabilizing brace is now a felony.

If you shoulder the stabilizing brace, you are, in the eyes of ATF, redesigning the stabilizing brace with the intent of firing it as a shoulder fired weapon.

Get over it and stop whining. If you don't like it, fight it in court, call your congressman, have the NFA and GCA repealed as unconstitutional. But don't complain because you got caught speeding.... Those of us that legally SBR'd our rifle have no sympathy or empathy for those that intentionally and knowingly circumvented the law. That doesn't mean we agree with the law....

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

I am currently building an AR Pistol myself. The ATF seems to be waffling on the issue of whether or not a Sig Brace can be shouldered while its assembled to the pistol so who knows whether or not it's officially legal or illegal. I don't like the Sig Braces. I tried one out at a gun show and just didn't like the feel or look of it. My pistol will have the Phase 5 buffer tube. But either way....I MIGHT apply for the unconstitutional tax stamp later just so I can put a stock on it but until then I will enjoy shooting it whether or not I'm waiting on the stamp.

I would never consider making my 15-22 a pistol/SBR. I thought (I haven't researched the law) a rifle couldn't be turned into a pistol if it was a rifle in it's original form? "Once a rifle always a rifle" is what I've heard.

 

[DCP]

You're right. Nothing has changed. EXCEPT in their previous letter, ATF was OK with occasional shouldering of a pistol that had a stabilizing brace. Now, if you are caught shouldering a pistol, or post a video of such, you are in violation of the NFA.

If you're strapping it to your forearm, then you are using it as intended. Sig arms, in their letter to ATF, did not indicate that the intended use was to shoulder the weapon and get around NFA laws.

If you shoulder the stabilizing brace, you are, in the eyes of ATF, redesigning the stabilizing brace with the intent of firing it as a shoulder fired weapon.

Get over it and stop whining. If you don't like it, fight it in court, call your congressman, have the NFA and GCA repealed as unconstitutional. But don't complain because you got caught speeding....

Seriously what exactly am I crying about? If you never speed you cant get caught. I never intended to use the SIG brace as a SBR. I am retired law enforcement I would never jeopardize my pension. Let not read into rulings. NOTHING HAS CHANGE. White powder looks like a lot of things does it not.

s

 

[Brett248Vista]

They actually said that it doesn't matter how you use the Sig Brace. That includes shouldering it. Do they regret saying that? Probably but it's a done deal....for now.

What's a done deal? The ATF just said (see the letter above)
that if you shoulder a Sig Brace you are now in violation of NFA.

So if a LEO is at the range and keeps up with the ATF's stance on
NFA items and you are out there shouldering your Sig Brace
you are now going to jail.


The ATF can change their mind at will and you can't do jack to
stop them. Now, Sig can choose to sue the pants off of them
and that probably will happen, and that *might* get them to
change their stance but until that happens it's clear what their
current stance is on the issue.

And they would say, ignorance is no excuse for breaking the
law.

 

[sithlord]

I never intended to use the SIG brace as a SBR.

I believe you are in the minority. I would venture to guess that MOST of the people who have purchased the SIG brace, as well as replicas, have done so to EXPLICITLY skirt the NFA laws related to SBRs.

Good on you for using a stabalizing brace as intended. But make no mistake, the opinion of a not caring how the stabalizing brace was used, in the eyes of the ATF, has changed. Use it properly, like you, and there is no issue. Use it improperly, like 95% (WAG) of the population, and it's now a liability.

 

[tbgunner88]

I think it's all bs and as mentioned before the laws are unconstitutional to begin with, but I won't get into that debate.I will ask if a 10 year old fires a .22 mares leg from his shoulder, does that make him a felon?

 

[RedNeck Jim]

So about this Sig brace. Does anyone here look at that & say, "Boy, what a great design? That fits my arm perfectly." Or does every gun owner in the universe look at that & say, "What a perfect design to fit my shoulder"?

If one wants to compare to a similar application, look at crutches. Those designed to be shouldered are completely different than those designed to brace the arm.

This Sig brace is a horrible ergonomic design to fit someone's arm. However, it is a perfect design if you want to skirt the law and claim it is designed as an arm brace, but actually shoulder the weapon.

 

[DCP]

So about this Sig brace. Does anyone here look at that & say, "Boy, what a great design? That fits my arm perfectly." Or does every gun owner in the universe look at that & say, "What a perfect design to fit my shoulder"?

If one wants to compare to a similar application, look at crutches. Those designed to be shouldered are completely different than those designed to brace the arm.

This Sig brace is a horrible ergonomic design to fit someone's arm. However, it is a perfect design if you want to skirt the law and claim it is designed as an arm brace, but actually shoulder the weapon.

Good thing your opinion doesn't matter.

The Brace was and is designed for the a disable VET or anyone else to fire from your arm. and the ATF has already ruled so get over it. Where do these people come from under a rock.
You Sir dishonor our VETS.

 

[RedNeck Jim]

Good thing your opinion doesn't matter.

The Brace was and is designed for the a disable VET or anyone else to fire from your arm. and the ATF has already ruled so get over it. Where do these people come from under a rock.
You Sir dishonor our VETS.

You are full of it. I am a Vet & dishonor no one by giving my opinion... which matters as much as yours. I come from Mississippi, not from under a rock.

I don't doubt it could be used in such a manner as you describe but if it were not intended to also fit in the shoulder, why this design? Why all this extra mass & weight to strap on a disabled person's arm? Why not a simple cuff design, just like used by all other arm braces for the disabled?

You folks really think we are that stupid?

 

[tbgunner88]

You are full of it. I am a Vet & dishonor no one by giving my opinion... which matters as much as yours. I come from Mississippi, not from under a rock.

I don't doubt it could be used in such a manner as you describe but if it were not intended to also fit in the shoulder, why this design? Why all this extra mass & weight to strap on a disabled person's arm? Why not a simple cuff design, just like used by all other arm braces for the disabled?

You folks really think we are that stupid?

When you say we you sound like you are siding with the ATF. Personally I have no use for the sig brace, but I don't agree with any law that brings new restrictions to gun owners and tramples out rights even further. The same goes for open carry laws, just because I don't see a need for open carry, doesn't mean that I think a law should tell others in some parts that they can't. We need to see the big picture here and realize we are all on the same side as gun owners and realize if we give an inch (even something like the sig brace being fired from the shoulder) that they will take a mile.