Has Sheriff Joe Gone Over The Edge?

Norsk_jaeger said:
What kind if idiot wanders around in the desert armed and pointing weapons at innocent people? While Sheriff Joe is a grandstander for sure and says some silly things what should be said is for those pointing weapons at people without just cause there is a good chance that an innocent armed civilian is going to fire back thinking their lives are in danger. Let LEO (including border patrol) do their job and you yahoos wandering around in the desert need to go home and worry about protecting your own home. Sheesh.
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The problem is that the various policing agencies and the border patrol are NOT DOING THEIR JOBS!

So this makes for a serous and unusual situation. I like the idea that citizens are willing to protect this land from the invading hoards of illegal aliens that flood across our borders by the tens of millions, most with impunity. Those that do get caught are often treated like an endangered fish and released back into this county on their on recognizance. What a laugh that is.

I think sheriff Joe and those minute men have to be very careful about pointing guns a people. I think this one case is a little strange since most sheriffs and their deputies wear uniforms, making it difficult to mistake them for an illegal alien.

Also if policing authorities identify themselves as they are required to do so by law it would go a long way to preventing such encounters. Both sides need to realize they may well encounter each other in such areas and caution on both sides is called for. Sheriff Joe should be glad for any help he can get in this area as well.

Finally if someone is going to take it upon themselves to guard our mostly unguarded borders, they have to be very careful and they must realize they are taking some serious risks to do this national service.
 
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Although I definitely agree more needs to be done on border patrol of illegals I'm not sure a bunch of untrained Rambos are the answer. I tend to think Joe is trying to protect his deputies while they try to do their job. Given the choice of having him watch my back or msnbc I'll hang with Joe.
 
feralmerril said:
Any time you "patrol" a dessert area at night some incidents are going to happen. A novice non lawman, military or guard is going to be excitable and keyed up to start with. As mentioned elsewhere I was a defense plant guard forever. We had sites in remote desert that I sometimes got assigned to, to guard certain things. Not often but when you do that type work things are going to happen. Once I was in the middle of nowhere and I hear a pack of dogs comeing at me about 03:00 am. A hot, dark desert night, you think no one should be within 10 miles of you. A guy on a wheeled sled pulled by a dog team comes up. He`s practicing for the idelrod!
Excitable tin foil hats need not apply. They WILL see stuff. I suspect Joe deals with some of the type.
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I can see Russia from my back porch.
 
Sheriff Joe is 81 years old.

He has contributed a lot to common sense law enforcement, and taken a lot of flack for it.

But there comes a time when a man needs to retire and pass the job on to someone younger.

As for the guy who pointed his rifle at the deputy, he should be happy he is still alive -- and not shot dead by the deputy or his partner.

Since there seem to be a lot of people who want to do this minute man thing, I think Arizona should set up some kind of police reserve program where unpaid volunteers are vetted, have background checks, and then can watch for illegals while coordinating with regular law enforcement.
 
A Trooper in Oregon stopped a drunk driver, while arresting her the husband brought out a rifle. When he pointed it at the Trooper the husband lost his life. Point a gunat a person who carries one for a living and you just might meet your maker soon there after!
 
I don't see this as one issue. I think that's an oversimplification. Of course the drive by media is trying to make him look bad, nothing new there either.

The issues are:

1. The pointing of a gun at the Deputy. That's a no brainer.
2. The militia's patrolling the border.
3. The Sheriff's 30 bullet statement.

Everyone wants to jump on the gun pointing issue, I don't think the debate is over that, at least not for me or anyone other than bleeding hearts. No one questions pointing a gun at an officer is stupid or wrong.

I generally support Sheriff Joe, but he made a dumb statement this time. If he had said "the safety of my officers is primary, as is their right to defend themselves; pointing a gun at them under any circumstances is going to be met with a sudden and immediate response," or something along those lines, it would have been fine. Anyone who's been in LE administration for a while can tell you that it's how you say it and to think before before opening your mouth for the cameras.
 
If you go out into indian country, one ought to know what one is doin. Knowing the difference between a sheriffs deputy and a smuggler or a coyote should be basic. Problem is, there are plainclothes and undercover working the border.
It's a sticky situation on the border. I guess Sheriff Joe is trying to keep over enthusiastic amatuers settled down.
 
AZ is a strange place. I lived there in the 60's 10 miles from the border. When I lived there it was pretty mild but still a place where having a weapon near by wasn't a bad idea. Drugs were coming across even then. My dad knew most of the BP there and was a combat vet (WWII), he knew the score. He kept a rifle in his truck and a short barreled shotgun in the house. Having lived in TX and AZ I can understand the mind set, although I think it's a bit radical. You don't point a weapon at a LEO and not have a problem. Any fool knows that. That sun down there must have baked his brains.
 
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Back in the 60's, I was at Ft Huachuca for language training. I was doing my level best to stall having to go to Vietnam for as long as possible. I had volunteered for jungle training at Ft Polk right after flight school, then language school. The Army finally got wind of my angle, and pulled me out of language school after only 10 days...Tet happened, and I was on my way. The only thing I know about this isolated part of AZ is that I was told if I looked real hard, I could see Mexico; all I saw was a booth with a tape recorder and ear muffs, and ugly azz barracks....that's all I know about Arizona.
 
finesse_r said:
The problem is that the various policing agencies and the border patrol are NOT DOING THEIR JOBS!
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^^^
This x1000. What's worse is every time the government looks like doing something about it all the hand-wringers and do-gooders start creating and/or it is too close to election time to see it through.
 
I didn't give this story too much thought, mostly just old Joe attention whoring again. Then I had a thought. Google a map of Maricopa County. Note where it is.
It is not on the Mexican border. So the volunteer wannabes who drew down on this deputy are pretty much full of bull. If you want to go hiking around the desert with a rifle, awesome. Don't claim your 'patrolling' when you really just want to play Rambo without getting too far away from the big city luxuries.

And yes, I realize (more than most here) that smugglers don't just stop 100 feet past the border. Some of them hike for days carrying their load. But I don't think the most effective way to fight this is for volunteers to be wandering around interior counties trying to detain people.

The little militia dude is lucky this ended with him in a condition to go to jail, and not the hospital.
 
finesse_r said:
The problem is that the various policing agencies and the border patrol are NOT DOING THEIR JOBS!

So this makes for a serous and unusual situation. I like the idea that citizens are willing to protect this land from the invading hoards of illegal aliens that flood across our borders by the tens of millions, most with impunity. Those that do get caught are often treated like an endangered fish and released back into this county on their on recognizance. What a laugh that is.

I think sheriff Joe and those minute men have to be very careful about pointing guns a people. I think this one case is a little strange since most sheriffs and their deputies wear uniforms, making it difficult to mistake them for an illegal alien.

Also if policing authorities identify themselves as they are required to do so by law it would go a long way to preventing such encounters. Both sides need to realize they may well encounter each other in such areas and caution on both sides is called for. Sheriff Joe should be glad for any help he can get in this area as well.

Finally if someone is going to take it upon themselves to guard our mostly unguarded borders, they have to be very careful and they must realize they are taking some serious risks to do this national service.
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A quick Google search shows there is still about five days left in the current Border Patrol hiring announcement. Apply. Go show them how it's done. But your post reveals you have no clue as to how things truly operate.
 
I think he is "over the edge" in some ways, but vigilante wannabes are asking for trouble in a situation like that. "Watchers" who make reports of illegal activity, okay. We have a neighborhood watch where I live, and I've irritated a number of drug dealers by reporting them and their license numbers when they're conducting business in my apartment complex. Wearing sidearms, sure. But patrolling an alleged high-crime area at night while armed with rifles, with no legal standing or authority to do so, smacks of the vigilante to me. Mall ninjas plus. And that stuff isn't legal.

Everybody like that I've ever known was hoping for trouble. Some found it. One may still be doing time for second-degree murder.

The sheriff was right to warn them, but he's given to being "colorful" and blustering.
 
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ChattanoogaPhil said:
Based on that very short story, it sounds like Joe is saying be careful about who you point your gun at, my guys are out there too.
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Exactly...........I don't feel anyone should read more into the situation or what was said than that..........The good guys are out there too, so don't go around pointing your gun at them or you could get shot.


Don
 
M29since14 said:
I don't think the Sheriff was "threatening" anyone. I think he was simply pointing out that his deputies are not going to take that kind of thing lightly and that they have every right to - and will - defend themselves. That's all. :)

The MSM will do what they can to make it sound otherwise.

My guess is the Sheriff would like to avoid that problem if he can, and that is why he is talking about it. But... he is saying everyone has to understand the safety of his deputies doing their sworn duty will come first.

My read, but I admit I am biased. From what I know about him, I wish we had about a thousand more sheriffs like him.
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Since I am a little biased in this myself, I'll defer to M29.... Said it better than I could. I'd like to point out a clear violation of Firearm Safety Rule 2 (never point a gun at anything you don't want to destroy). Especially if the target is capable of doing the same back at you..... Someone was really lucky he pointed his rifle at a very highly trained professional, and not someone "trained" to a similar level.
 
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keith44spl said:
Well,
I guess what Sheriff Arapio lacks in tact, he more than makes up for in grit...


I too, have worked at nite in the weeds and don't like being surprised neither.

This going's on.....On the Border, is prickly business.


.
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I've been in the swamp when things were going on. Bad things. We were under a dope drop early AM getting ready to hunt and had to keep low until we thought it was safe. That damn plane went over three times. Must have been a lot of bails. '78 BTW

Thank god we weren't seen.

Screwing around in the dark can get you dead in a hurry.

I could only imagine DEA coming in and thinking we were spotters.
 
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