Have you had a safe cracked?

Cal44

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I'm not sure where to put this post.

It doesn't seem to fit in any category.

Moderators should move it if they want to.

My question is:

Has anyone had a gun safe broken into by a burglar?

I'd be interested to hear of any cases, but I'm particularly curious about "big" safes with serious locks -- not just the little thin walled gun vault types.

Also, has anyone had a whole safe taken?

I always lag bolt my safe to the wall studs, but still if someone really wanted to they could probably pry it loose and a couple big guys with a hand truck could carry out the whole safe.

Has this happened to any of you?
 
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When I worked part time at the LGS, I had one customer tell me they broke into his safe, pry the door open.. It was a 'Stack-On ' gun locker.
Also had 3 customers tell me they took the whole safe.
Larger , better quality safes, probably about 500 lb.+ safes.
One was even taken up the stairs out of the basement. :eek:

I'm not sure how you move a 500+ lb . safe full of guns.. must be some very large individuals..
But after hearing those stories, I anchored mine in the concrete floor with four lag bolts rated at 5000 lbs. each.
 
My old American Security safe weighs 500 pounds empty (light by gun safe standards) and probably close to twice that with everything that's in it. A burglar would have to get through two locked doors, deal with the ear splitting shriek of my house alarm, and get what amounts to a 1000 pound refrigerator out the door and into a truck or a van, or take a torch to it. It's doable, but I'm betting they'd just grab the TVs and computers and beat it. Still better than no safe at all. I used to keep my guns in the attic.

On a side note, my sister in law had her house broken in to and the criminals spent more time searching for personal records and paperwork (ID theft) than they did ripping off expensive items. Something to think about.
 
Never happened to me but as a locksmith I've seen it many times.

"Cracking" safes isn't my specialty but I've done it many times. To do so without ruining the safe is highly specialized and takes special tools and equipment not to mention know how. Each brand is different. You can't just start drilling holes and hope for the best. And depending on how the safe is made, it can be time consuming and noisy.

There is an automatic safe dialer that mounts to the safe magnetically. Plug it in and turn it on and it will dial every combination possible until the safe opens. There is also a tool that will do the same for electronic locks. And some locksmiths and safe technicians specialize in safe lock manipulation where they can figure out the combination by using a special method which again is not easy and takes time.

These tools are not easily obtained and are expensive.

So.........My last concern with my safe is someone gaining entry with finesse. Every safe that I have seen that was broken into or attempted to be broken into was done with brute force. Most petty thieves lack the knowledge and don't carry special tools with them. And they would have to know ahead of time that you indeed have a safe and whether or not your safe was worth the time to break into at the risk of getting caught.

With high quality heavy duty safes I have seen attempted entry with pry bars, torches, gas operated saws, sledge hammers, dragging it down the street with a chain wrapped around it, and other petty methods. With some of the safes the damage was minimal and others had to be replaced.

With low quality safes I have seen them easily pried open or smashed open with a sledge hammer. I've even done so myself.

I've been called several times by local law enforcement to give my opinion as to how a safe was stolen or broken into. I have also opened several safes for them to obtain evidence that could be used against bad guys.

It is my opinion that a perspective safe buyer should buy a decent quality safe. Not a big box store safe. Generally the big box store safes are economy models that look high quality but are not. They are bought cheap and sold for more than they're worth. Some of these safes are branded with names that we associate with and know well. Don't fall for it. However, if all you can afford is a big box store safe and can't save the money for a good quality safe then buy what you can. At least your guns will be somewhat protected. The most common problem that I have seen with these low quality safes is workmanship. They fall apart or quit working locking the owner out. Sometimes they are under warranty and sometimes not. And some owners have to jump through a million hoops during the warranty process.

There are other considerations when buying a safe such as size, weight, and the presence of dogs or an alarm system. But if your safe quits working or falls apart ask yourself how mad you will be at yourself for not buying a better one. ;)
 
When I worked part time at the LGS, I had one customer tell me they broke into his safe, pry the door open.. It was a 'Stack-On ' gun locker.
Also had 3 customers tell me they took the whole safe.
Larger , better quality safes, probably about 500 lb.+ safes.
One was even taken up the stairs out of the basement. :eek:

I'm not sure how you move a 500+ lb . safe full of guns.. must be some very large individuals..
But after hearing those stories, I anchored mine in the concrete floor with four lag bolts rated at 5000 lbs. each.
You also want to lag the back and side if can.
John

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
I saw a local gun store safe which had a big square cut into its side.
This was, I think, a safe of welded steel plate construction.
The hole was about a foot square.
The crooks just reached in and helped themselves to handguns.
They entered through the ceiling AC opening.
This store had motion sensors but with gaps.
The crooks knew where the gaps were and stole items from the display case down to edge of the gap.
They must have really cased that place well!
So if you have gaps, make sure they're not over your gun safe!
 
As a metal trades guy I think getting into the vast majority of safes would be rather easy. A vault the had steel reinforced concrete between steel walls would be a big hassle though. At my place I have a surveillance video system that would make approaching the house difficult. The way I mounted the systems box would make it a real problem to get into.
 
Never happened to me but as a locksmith I've seen it many times.

"Cracking" safes isn't my specialty but I've done it many times. To do so without ruining the safe is highly specialized and takes special tools and equipment not to mention know how. Each brand is different. You can't just start drilling holes and hope for the best. And depending on how the safe is made, it can be time consuming and noisy.

There is an automatic safe dialer that mounts to the safe magnetically. Plug it in and turn it on and it will dial every combination possible until the safe opens. There is also a tool that will do the same for electronic locks. And some locksmiths and safe technicians specialize in safe lock manipulation where they can figure out the combination by using a special method which again is not easy and takes time.

These tools are not easily obtained and are expensive.

So.........My last concern with my safe is someone gaining entry with finesse. Every safe that I have seen that was broken into or attempted to be broken into was done with brute force. Most petty thieves lack the knowledge and don't carry special tools with them. And they would have to know ahead of time that you indeed have a safe and whether or not your safe was worth the time to break into at the risk of getting caught.

With high quality heavy duty safes I have seen attempted entry with pry bars, torches, gas operated saws, sledge hammers, dragging it down the street with a chain wrapped around it, and other petty methods. With some of the safes the damage was minimal and others had to be replaced.

With low quality safes I have seen them easily pried open or smashed open with a sledge hammer. I've even done so myself.

I've been called several times by local law enforcement to give my opinion as to how a safe was stolen or broken into. I have also opened several safes for them to obtain evidence that could be used against bad guys.

It is my opinion that a perspective safe buyer should buy a decent quality safe. Not a big box store safe. Generally the big box store safes are economy models that look high quality but are not. They are bought cheap and sold for more than they're worth. Some of these safes are branded with names that we associate with and know well. Don't fall for it. However, if all you can afford is a big box store safe and can't save the money for a good quality safe then buy what you can. At least your guns will be somewhat protected. The most common problem that I have seen with these low quality safes is workmanship. They fall apart or quit working locking the owner out. Sometimes they are under warranty and sometimes not. And some owners have to jump through a million hoops during the warranty process.

There are other considerations when buying a safe such as size, weight, and the presence of dogs or an alarm system. But if your safe quits working or falls apart ask yourself how mad you will be at yourself for not buying a better one. ;)

Kanewpadle--Since I have been a member of this forum, your professional advice and opinions have been invaluable to me in both the purchase and installations of safes. Thank you for all of the posts.

John
 
Never had a gun safe "cracked". I, however, once opened one of those small "Sentry" floor safe you see for about $100. Three or four hits with a sledge hammer, and it was open. Kind of disheartening to see how easy it opened. Obtained it for $10 at an estate sale. Had dreams of a safe full of old S&W's. Full of worthless old paperwork...:(

Larry
 
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I bought a quality name brand used safe that was 30"W by 24" deep by 60" high from a local video poker casino chain. It had set in their warehouse for over a year before they surplussed it and put it up for sale. In that time personnel changed over and the combination was lost. They put it up for sale at $350 and I offered $150. After two days they took my offer. I took it on a trailer to my locksmith who had 50 years of experience. He told me of all the ways to 'crack' the safe and their estimated costs. Since I'm a metal worker with lots of neat tools he advised me to cut a square hole in the bottom with a narrow blade angle grinder with the hole large enough for one of his locksmiths to crawl inside. I took it home and did just that. I took it back and between him and his smallest locksmith they opened the door from the inside. I then took the safe and cutout piece to a good friend that is the best custom welder/fabricator in So. Nevada. He welded up the bottom and put another layer of steel reinforcing the floor. Total cost of $300 including the safe. It sure made me a firm believer in anchoring all safes to a concrete floor and to the wall if possible.

BTW; I found an envelope inside that safe behind an elaborate office shelf system. Inside was a blank check signed and labeled "Mystery Slot Payoff". It had no payee and no date. I called the casino and told the head financial man what I found. He laughed and said that they cancel and void all checks that are unused every three months. I asked him if they wanted it back. He laughed again and suggested that I put my name on the payee line and make it out for a million dollars. Then I should put it in a picture frame and put it on my wall. I just tore it up.
 
steelslayer: Many years ago, while hunting Quail in some foothills south of Las Vegas, I found a heavy duty steel night deposit safe from a service station/convenience store. It was locked up with a big high dollar padlock. I was driving my Jeep with a winch, so I dragged it up hill until I found a place that I could back the Jeep up to and I rolled it in the back. I took it to my locksmith friend. He was able to pick the padlock in just under an hour. We opened it with great anticipation and found it had already been cleaned out. Obviously it was an inside job by someone with a duplicate key. I just wish they hadn't bothered to re-lock it before ditching it in the desert. ..... -(
 
My sister-in-law passed and left a cheap safe -- and no combo.

My wife took it to a locksmith and he opened it in about 5 minutes with a hand sledge and some pry bars.

Those cheap safes aren't worth much.
 
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Don't have a safe. The good guns are all hid around the house in various places where it'd take way too much time to find them all. The beaters kept out loaded for critters are in plain sight and would probably be the only guns a smash and grab tweaker would bother to take. If there's a fire there's a fire. Life is too short to fret about "stuff", and as dear to us as our guns are, they're just, in the end, more "stuff". Just my opinion of course..
 
I acquired a nice Hall's safe recently and took the interior out to refurbish it.....red shag carpet inside. I am not going to put back the fire resistant sheet rock so I can gain some room inside. Like the comment above I am not worried about the fire aspect because if there is a fire I have bigger issues. The safe is to keep everybody around them safe and the guns out of their hands.
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A little creative use of a dozen 2x4s and some sheetrock goes a long way toward concealing that there is a safe at all.

I like layers of security.

If they can't find it they can't break in it or steal it.
 
It is important to understand a couple of things.

Most people buy what are actually residential security containers to keep their guns in. Residential security containers are just like everything else. There are good ones and there are cheap ones. As with so many other things, you generally get what you pay for. Now a real TL rated safe is another animal entirely. Nobody but a professional is likely to be able to get into a real TL rated safe, even a TL-15 which is the lowest rating for safes.

My wife and I were able to pick up an old AMSEC TL-30 at auction a couple of years ago for 700$ They had it sitting on a cattle scale at the auction, 3,400 lb. Just the innermost liner of several layers is 1" Hearth steel underneath the four inches of heat resistant concrete, underneath a 1/4" outside protective layer of additional steel. Nobody is going to beat or cut their way into this beast without special equipment. And if they can take it, then I say have at it.

Interestingly enough it actually had a relocker about ready to let go when I bought it. But I had a qualified locksmith inspect it when I got it. He advised me of this issue which was a really good things as if the relocker had let go, I never would have gotten in there. The relocker is gone, but now I just keep an 8 lb. jug of Red dot in there in the event of someone trying to burn their way in. But I do not loose a lot of sleep over it.
 
I always figured I could bust a good safer with a good porta power a ripper tooth and a adjustable pin together tubing frame. Another way would be wearing a SCBA while a sprayed it down with liquid nitrogen (available at welding supplies and movable with hand cart) once Steel and. Concrete is minus 200 it would turn into an egg.
I just believe in karma and bad money never coming to good
 
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The Bruck Safe Company in Westerville, Ohio has three cracked safes in their showroom. Two were 24" high heavies that were completely destroyed by the bad guys using sawzall, pry bars, and hammerdrill. The third was a tall bank safe with typical cylindrical locking mechanisms that locked in to the frame. They cracked that one by somehow prying the frame away from the door edge and applying brute force to the door. Their conclusion was that not all, but most safes can be penetrated if the bad guys have enough time.

Years ago I bought a used Mosler bank safe from them for my guns.
Dave
 

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