HE 1896

[mikkyc]

Hello all

I have an old Hand Ejector model of 1896. I think its 1896 because all S&W patents are engraved on the cylinder.

Does anybody have a schematics for this model?
I contacted David Chicoine but so far no response from him.

Thanks

 

[DWalt]

Not sure what you have - you need to provide some pictures and the SN. It may or may not belong in the Antique area. In any event you would probably get better results from posting in the Hand Ejector area.

 

[mikkyc]

Thanks for the advice DWalt.

Serial number is 176xx. Letter to Mr Jinks is in the mail.
It's really nice revolver, original grips and medallions. Tight lock up. Both SA/DA function. Though barrel has some minor pitting. I disassembled and cleaned it, and I plan to reblue it. I really need schematics: I believe there's a missing pin. But I cannot figure what did it hold inside or what is missing under the side plate. All mechanics seem to function flawlessly. Here's a picture with a hole where I think the pin should be. And another side.

 

[LaVistaBill]

Mikkyc: It appears you have a .32 Hand Ejector First Model that was produced from 1896-1903. This little I-frame revolver was an odd throw-back to the first S&W revolvers the Model 1 and Model 2, which had the locking bolt mechanisms located in the top strap of the frame. Later incarnations of the HE had them in the usual location in the bottom part of the frame above the trigger. The grips on your gun appear to have come off a more modern J-frame, like the Model 36 Chief's Special. Someone else will have to tell you when it was made. Famous U.S. Deputy Marshal Bill Tilghman carried one of these handy little revolvers in the latter part of his law enforcement career.

 

[jw mathews]

If you can get a look at the Neal & Jinks book covering S&Ws from 1856-1945, one of the Xray photos in the appendix might be of help. The location of the missing crosspin in the side of the frame appears to me as being in the area of the rebound slide below the hammer. But if the gun works properly, trigger returns forward after the hammer drops etc, the pin might be related to something else.

The Gun Parts Corp may have exploded view drawings available; perhaps someone in the S&W Collectors Association may see yr post & respond. I don't know if the Historical Foundation could help but you could ask there as well. I don't know if the factory still has drawings for the obsolete guns that were discontinued many years ago, but it might be worth a phone call to find out.

I hope some of the ideas above may be of use to you. Good luck with yr search.

 

[Skeetr57]

The model of 1896 did not have a rebound slide, that came in one of the changes to the model of 1903.

 

[mikepriwer]

This gun has the lockwork found in the K-frame models of 1899 and 1902, and early
1905's . Here is a picture of it, from Neal & Jinks page 207:

I've noted the approximate location of the two studs that show through on the
left side of the frame.

I doubt you are missing the stud that positions and holds the levering trigger
rebound mechanism. If it were missing, the trigger would not work properly.
Perhaps the pin-end of that stud is broken, or has been cut or ground off.

If you remove the sideplate screws, after removing the grips, and then rap the
grip frame near the butt with a piece of wood, the side plate should come
up, and then off. You'll see the mechanism shown in the radiograph above.

You might want to get a picture of it, and post it here.

Mike Priwer

 

[Hondo44]

Mikkyc,

Welcome to this forum! You have a nice, un-abused early vintage Smith.

You do have a 1st Model 32 hand ejector (Model of 1896). It's an 'I' frame likely made in the 2nd to last year of production, 1902.

The 'Mini' Magna grips are post WW II from a pre Model of 1953 I or J frame. The serial number stamped on the backside of the right side grip will tell us which gun and year they came from.

Like Mike said above, the pin must be there for the gun to function. Poke a paper clip into the hole, it won't go all the way thru. Take off the sideplate again and see if the pin is working it's way out of the hole and if so, tap it back in from the inside before it comes all the way out.

If you have it refinished, be sure to use someone that "Restores" finishes, not just re-blues/re-nickels or it could wind up looking worse than it does now. Many of these were nickel plated originally and yours looks like it may have traces of nickel on the ejection rod. Look for an 'N' (nickel) or 'B' (blue) stamped by the serial number under the barrel or one side of the grip frame under the grips to determine which was the original finish. It will be worth less either way you refinish it, because now it's still original. So you'll be spending money to de-value the gun but that's of course your decision.

 

[mikkyc]

Many thanks

First off, I want to thank everybody who gave opinion and/or advice. This forum is a full of incredibly valuable information.
And you all guys are absolutely the best.

Below are couple more pictures. 1st - right grip with numbers. Hope someone will be able to decipher and date the grips.

2nd picture - close up of rebound slide. Barrel at 6 o`clock.

Tom, (skeetr57) - I was under impression that models of 1903 and later did not have S&W data engraved on the cylinder, but I am a very green collector . Looks like this revolver has rebound slide.
Now, red "arrow" or rather curve points at half-moon shaped opening. And this opening is actually a visible half of that pin-hole where the pin is missing. So, looking at the picture provided by Mike Priwer I think this is Levering Trigger Rebound Stud.

Jim (Hondo44) and Mike - revolver functions perfectly without this pin. DA/SA both good. Trigger returns just fine. I did try paper clip. The thinnest one does go through. I can actually see the light coming through pin-hole when side plate is removed, but the opening is very small - like a very small segment of the actual pin-hole.

Michael

 

[DWalt]

That number would be around 1957.

 

[mikkyc]

That number would be around 1957.

Got it. Grips are not original.

Thanks a lot.
Michael

 

[mikepriwer]

This gun has undergone some serious modifications. The levering rebound mechanism
for the trigger has been replaced with a 1910-1920 rebound slide mechanism. They
removed the levering stud, which is why there is a hole there. You should see the
new stud just to the side of the grip cutout on the left side of the frame.

This is akin dropping a 57 Chevy engine into a 48 Ford !

Mike Priwer

 

[Hondo44]

Well, that was definitely a surprise and a first for me. For the lack of original parts, apparently, as Mike said, this gun has been upgraded with a later trigger return system (trigger rebound slide) to get it back into shootable condition. With the left grip removed we would have been tipped off by being able to see an extra pin, if it extends all the way thru the left side of the frame.

 

[Hondo44]

If I read the grip number correctly, it's # 116,962 and has three possible sources:
c. 1956 pre Model 36 or 37, .38 Chiefs Special, J frame
c. 1965 Mod 34, 22/32 Kit Gun Model, J frame
c. 1968 Mod 32, .38 S&W Terrier, J frame

Any of the three possibilities are J frame size grips which have been shortened 1/8" at the bottom to fit the Model 1896 I frame grip size. So if the grips were added at the same time as the internal modifications, all was done after at least 1956.

 

[Green Frog]

Apparently somebody had a very old but worn out or incomplete Model 1896 that they took to a gunsmith with instructions to fix it and "d*** the expen$e." If only that gun could talk! Do you have any information about its history? BTW, since it retains a flat main spring, which appears to be the post-1902 I-frame stuff, I'm guessing the grips are a Maguffin and that the real work may have been done before they were even "born." Can you imagine how difficult it would have been to alter a Model 1896 to the coil spring action in use when the grips were made??

Froggie

 

[Skeetr57]

Mikkyc: You were correct that the patent dates on the cylinder are indicators of a M1896, and I didn't mean to imply otherwise, but an 1896 didn't have a rebound slide, except for this one!

 

[DWalt]

Certainly is one of the more curious modifications that has appeared here.

 

[mikkyc]

Huge Thanks

Gentlemen

Lot of thanks to everybody who contributed to solving the charade which this revolver is (or rather was, thanks again to all of you).

The new pin which holds the rebound slide is practically unnoticed from the left side of the frame. This is one of the reasons I thought of rebound slide as a part of original revolver.
Only after I grabbed magnifying glass I could actually see the traces of this pin on the left side. It is seamlessly blended into the frame. Obviously the gunsmith who did this job many years ago knew his stuff. I think he left the hole there because the pin to plug it with would interfere with the rebound slide.

Unfortunately I cannot trace this gun back: I bought it from the person who in turn got it from estate sale few months ago.

I am waiting for a letter from Mr. Jinks to date this "frame" as I should call it now .

Again, many thanks for all your knowledge and help.

Michael

 

[Hondo44]

Gentlemen
I think he left the hole there because the pin to plug it with would interfere with the rebound slide.
Michael

The pin could be installed to fill the empty hole and cut off flush with the inside surface of the frame and there would not be any interference.

 

[Hondo44]

BTW, since it retains a flat main spring, which appears to be the post-1902 I-frame stuff, I'm guessing the grips are a Maguffin and that the real work may have been done before they were even "born." Can you imagine how difficult it would have been to alter a Model 1896 to the coil spring action in use when the grips were made??

Froggie

Even if I was upgrading the action today to get the gun back in action and shootable condition, I'd leave the leaf mainspring since I consider it superior to the coil spring, not to mention the trouble to convert to coil spring. And not even necessary to get the gun working again.