HE Cylinder not opening freely

[bubbajoe45]

Hi,

I have a pre-21, 4th Model, 44 Spl that I dis-assembled for a thorough cleaning. There was old gunk and some old rust internally. I removed everything except the hand, cylinder stud, and trigger parts (i.e., trigger return, hammer, bolt, cylinder, etc.). The problem before that was that the trigger would occasionally not return all the way without a little help in DA (that's not happening now - I think the main spring screw was backed out too far?). Once I opened it up, there was more cleaning than I had anticipated and I intend to go through it all again soon. I soaked the bits in Kroil for a couple days and re-assembled with Lubriplate. One thing I noted was the spring loaded pin in the ejector shroud that locks up the ejector rod wouldn't come clean after repeatedly applying Kroil and working it back and forth (it did improve). I haven't ever taken this apart before, but it does appear to me to be working properly.

Anyway, my issue now is that the gun functions in DA and SA, but the cylinder won't open with the latch (which does move about the right amount forward and returns to it's position. But, if I dry fire the gun and then while the trigger is still pulled back a bit the cylinder will release and open. I did make sure the ejector rod is screwed in all the way. Did I not put everything back correctly? The cylinder did open normally before I took it apart, so duh yea I guess I didn't get something right, but what? I'm wondering if it might be the little tiny pin and spring in the bolt at the back end? (I only lost it for a little while). I'd appreciate any ideas or suggestions. Thanks.

 

[bubbajoe45]

I just read Daplumma's post entitled:
Trigger Reset Model 1950

and what he describes sounds similar to what I was experiencing BEFORE I took it apart, but I think my problem now is unrelated to the issue before.

 

[armorer951]

Hard to diagnose without having the gun in hand.....how about backtracking your disassembly and cleaning efforts to see if everything was re-installed correctly and is functioning as it should.

 

[bubbajoe45]

Yes, that's what I'm thinking as well. One thing I tried last night - I put fired cases in the chambers and attempted to dry fire. The trigger was back to not returning, but much worse than before. The last little bit of trigger return coincides with the hammer coming back to its resting position. One thing I didn't mention before is that the spring-loaded firing pin motion in the hammer common to all Smiths (pre-?1999? or whatever) isn't working. I applied Kroil to it repeatedly and tried to work it, but it is still stationary. So, maybe the two things are related?

 

[dangt]

Haven't looked at the Daplumma post you referred to but............has someone chopped too many coils off the rebound spring? Supposed to have 17 turns or coils, right? Try another rebound spring. A spring too weak will not rebound the hammer and that would interfere with opening the cylinder.

 

[armorer951]

If it's an OEM model correct hammer (or the original) the hammer nose in your hammer/revolver is not spring loaded. It should pivot up and down slightly (float)on the rivet. It is not held forward with a spring like the later model hammer nose.

I would agree with dangt's post about checking for aftermarket, damaged, or altered parts.

 

[bubbajoe45]

Ok, thanks, I'll check the rebound spring. It had occurred to me that the rebound spring is the prime influence on the return of the trigger. It looked stock and felt stiff, but I didn't count the coils. I have some Wolff springs, so I could try that to see if it makes a difference. Pretty sure the hammer is stock, but the firing pin isn't floating (seized up).

It honestly looks to me like this gun was never opened up at all since leaving the factory, and furthermore got wet or dunked one time and then just wiped externally.

 

[dangt]

That firing pin needs to move up and down some, as armorer951 points out. It must seem a little loose or it just may be getting stuck in the firing pin bushing ( hammer nose bushing) that is mounted in the frame. Maybe also look to make sure it has not also raised some burr on the side toward the cylinder.

 

[bubbajoe45]

Dis-assembled and re-assembled and seems to be functional now. I have no idea what I did differently - everything looked right. I suspect the Kroil had more time to penetrate and loosened things up a bit. I had used a brass brush on some of the corrosion on the hammer, sideplate, and frame but didn't get it all. I think that may have been the problem(s) - the hammer and trigger return weren't moving freely. Fired six rounds with a light load (Trail Boss) and seemed to work fine. Guess I'll continue cleaning and shooting . . .