Help for a 19-4 with Stuck Casings

[GRT3031]

I think one of your chambers is blown. Afix a snug patch and run through each chamber, if it pushes through easier than the rest, you might find the damaged chamber. Obviously thats not the best method, but a start.

 

[Longman]

When you checked with S&W Customer Service, did they say they couldn't fix it due to lack of parts? I would have thought that a current M19 cylinder would work here.

Yeah, I told them a gunsmith told me it needs a new cylinder and they told me that they didn't have cylinders for that model anymore since my gun is from the 70s.

I was very concerned with the service life which was why I bought the parts. When I bought my 19-4 new it came with no warnings about shooting magnum loads and that was what I shot, but never 125 gr, mostly 140 gr or 158 gr.

After hearing about all the failures of 19s I dropped my loads to somewhere between Spl and Magnum.

I still own a 66-5 and that one too never sees heavy loads.

If you want this cylinder I'll give you a good price on it, I'd rather it got used than just sitting in my safe.

I figured if a gun had .357 Magnum marked on the barrel, then .357 Magnum is fine. Of course I've since learned that only occasional use of .357 Magnum is recommended, but .38 Special and .38 Special +P shouldn't cause any issues at all. I also found a site that mentioned end shake can become an issue using .357 Magnums in as little as 500 rounds, while the same issue likely wouldn't occur before 10,000 rounds of .38 Special.

The 19-4 was the gas ring change. I'm pretty sure this cylinder is a -4 because that's what I owned. But I won't bet my life it's a -4.

Maybe someone knows how to tell the difference. I'll gladly buy it if I know it will fit. I just can't seem to find any distinguishing characteristics other than recessed/not recessed

 

[muddocktor]

The 19-4 was the gas ring change. I'm pretty sure this cylinder is a -4 because that's what I owned. But I won't bet my life it's a -4.

Does your cylinder still have the extractor star with it? If it does, the extractor star should have the serial number of the gun it came off of and by looking up the serial you might be able to get a probable ship date. And with a ship date, you can make an educated guess as to which dash revision it came off of.

Just a thought I had. I'd read just today about the extractor stars having the serial number on them up until they changed to the new style stars.

 

[Joed49]

There are no numbers anywhere on the cylinder or star. I measured the length and got 1.674, book says it should be 1.67 nominal. Diameter of the cylinder is 4.50 with my calipers. I can't think of any other measurements to take. .357 mag fits in the chambers so it is not a .38 Spl.

If you want it $25 plus shipping. It'll be here.

 

[Joed49]

I believe what this picture shows the gas ring on the front of the cylinder making it a -4. Can anyone verify that?

 

[Longman]

There are no numbers anywhere on the cylinder or star. I measured the length and got 1.674, book says it should be 1.67 nominal. Diameter of the cylinder is 4.50 with my calipers. I can't think of any other measurements to take. .357 mag fits in the chambers so it is not a .38 Spl.

If you want it $25 plus shipping. It'll be here.

Thanks! I'm getting 1.454 cylinder diameter on mine, is your diameter a typo? Length is right on. I'm using digital calipers which I don't fully trust to the thousandth, but I think were right on for measurements.

 

[Joed49]

Thanks! I'm getting 1.454 cylinder diameter on mine, is your diameter a typo? Length is right on. I'm using digital calipers which I don't fully trust to the thousandth, but I think were right on for measurements.

Sure is a typo, make that 1.450 for diameter.

 

[Muley Gil]

"I figured if a gun had .357 Magnum marked on the barrel, then .357 Magnum is fine. Of course I've since learned that only occasional use of .357 Magnum is recommended, but .38 Special and .38 Special +P shouldn't cause any issues at all. I also found a site that mentioned end shake can become an issue using .357 Magnums in as little as 500 rounds, while the same issue likely wouldn't occur before 10,000 rounds of .38 Special."

You need to know a little history of the K frame .357. In the mid '50s, Bill Jordan, Border Patrolman and WW II combat Marine, was asked by S&W management what would be his ideal police weapon. Bill asked for a 4" K frame revolver with an enclosed ejector rod shroud, heavy barrel, chambered in .357 Magnum. He envisioned these .357 Magnums to be shot mostly with .38 special loads, but to be sighted in with .357 loads.

Jump forward to the 1970s. Many police agencies started doing qualifications with duty ammo. At the same time, ammo makers started making .357 loads with lighter bullets than the standard 158 grain bullet. These lighter bullets tend to cause more gas cutting at the barrel/cylinder gap than the heavier bullets. Also, the bottom of the .357 barrels are thin in that area. Because of the combination of these two factors, barrel splitting started to happen more frequently.

Now, all K frame .357s do not have these problems. Why, I don't know. The use of duty ammo for quals tended to batter the K frames. These issues prompted S&W to develop the heavier L frame revolvers, which withstand .357 loads better. Then the wonder nine semi autos started replacing revolvers in police holsters.

 

[Waveski]

Longman -

No disrespect to your dad or your uncle , but the story seems to be coming together.
If the Joed49 cylinder deal works out you are a lucky fellow.

 

[BillyMagg]

There are no numbers anywhere on the cylinder or star. I measured the length and got 1.674, book says it should be 1.67 nominal. Diameter of the cylinder is 4.50 with my calipers. I can't think of any other measurements to take. .357 mag fits in the chambers so it is not a .38 Spl.

If you want it $25 plus shipping. It'll be here.

sounds like a deal to me!

 

[oldbrownhat]

I believe what this picture shows the gas ring on the front of the cylinder making it a -4. Can anyone verify that?

Well, here's my 19-4, which dates from 1980 according to the ser. #

 

[BC38]

IMO that brass came out of a stretched cylinder. Note how the widest part of the bulge is right where the stop notches are. That is the thinnest spot in the cylinder wall and right where they start to stretch when excessively hot ammo is shot through them.

I learned all about this when I bought a 15-5 that had the cylinder stretched just almost to the point of rupture on one charge hole. It happened right there were the stop notches are. My brass had bulges that looked just like yours - only a little bit worse. Mine actually bulged enough to split a little.

New cylinder time. Looks like Joed49 is gonna save your bacon (actually your revolver) just like a generous member here did for me and my M15.

 

[Longman]

sounds like a deal to me!

A great deal! I'm taking up the generous offer from Joed49

IMO that brass came out of a stretched cylinder. Note how the widest part of the bulge is right where the stop notches are. That is the thinnest spot in the cylinder wall and right where they start to stretch when excessively hot ammo is shot through them.

I learned all about this when I bought a 15-5 that had the cylinder stretched just almost to the point of rupture on one charge hole. It happened right there were the stop notches are. My brass had bulges that looked just like yours - only a little bit worse. Mine actually bulged enough to split a little.

New cylinder time. Looks like Joed49 is gonna save your bacon (actually your revolver) just like a generous member here did for me and my M15.

That's a good point on the location of the casing bulge. This seems pretty well solved at this point. Now I just hope it's a smooth transition with the new cylinder. I'm beyond impressed with all the help from this forum, thank you all! I hope to have an update in the very near future

 

[longaction]

Chamfer the edges of the charge holes just enough to break the sharp edges and remove any burrs.

 

[Coaltminer]

Try American ammo, forget the Armscor or Fiochi. They're hot! You're is a 19-4. Try others out. I think you'll find is all is Ok. Remember that both of those brands were not available when your gun was born. Try them

 

[4barrel]

Chamfer the edges of the charge holes just enough to break the sharp edges and remove any burrs.

That wont work because an overcharged cylinder swells in the middle. If you order a reamer you will wish you had not. You cant believe how hard these cylinders are.

 

[Marshal Kane]

Chamfer the edges of the charge holes just enough to break the sharp edges and remove any burrs.

Ouch! With all respect, BURNISH first with the shank end of a drill bit or something similar. Chamfering removes metal whereas burnishing just moves a little metal. Chamfering can always be done if burnishing doesn't do the trick. I prefer burnishing first but will chamfer as the next step. YMMV

 

[t4terrific]

I have a 19-4 2.5" that gets casings badly stuck on all types of ammo I've tried. 357 magnum loads and 38 special get stuck to the point that the casings have to be hammered out. I've tried different brands, brass casings, even 38 special steel casings, and they are all sticking with the same severity. The casings end up with a visible bulge and striations from about mid-point down to the base, just above the rim.



I took it to a local gunsmith and was told, after 3 weeks, that "Upon inspection I noticed the cylinder is over worn. This firearm needs a new cylinder." Does this issue match with the cylinder being worn?



I'm also getting conflicting answers on what cylinders are compatible with the 19-4. Smith & Wesson customer service says to go with cylinders from 19-4 up to 19-8, while Numrich's says that cylinders from the 19 no dash to 19-3 will work with the 19-4. So which one is correct?

I'd bore out the chambers and barrel and make it a .44.

There's no need to jump through hoops to get a new cylinder.

 

[muddocktor]

I'd bore out the chambers and barrel and make it a .44.

There's no need to jump through hoops to get a new cylinder.

Dude, this is a 19-4, which is a K frame gun. There ain't enough meat on that cylinder to do that and no way to fit a 44 barrel on the gun either.

 

[Joed49]

I'd bore out the chambers and barrel and make it a .44.

There's no need to jump through hoops to get a new cylinder.

There's 2 reasons not to do that. The first is that cylinder is bulged and stressed and is unsafe. The second reason is that it is a K frame and being a smaller frame the cylinder would be paper thin after being bored to .44. S&W had that figured out when they produced the .44 Spl in an L frame (the 696).