Help ID this 32-20?

[jas78]

Here I have another Hand-ejector I'm trying to identify.

The SN is 80157, it's a 32-20 with a 5" barrel. Fixed sights.

Any help would be most appreciated.

Thanks,

Jas

 

[PeteC]

I think it is called a ".32-20 Hand Ejector Model of 1905, 4th Change"
Manufactured 1915 - 1940 in a s/n range from 65701 to 144684. 78,983 total manufactured. This would be about one tenth the number made in caliber .38 spl.

If the grips are original, the serial number may be written on the inside of the right grip in pencil. If the nickel finish is original, it would make it less common.

 

[Muley Gil]

Welcome to the Forum.

Your .32-20 dates to the early '20s and has been nickel plated outside of the factory. As a rule, S&W didn't plate the hammer and trigger.

Look for a serial number stamped underneath the barrel. If that number has a "B" prefix, it shipped with a blue finish.

If the bore is decent, it should be a good shooter.

 

[JP@AK]

Note that there is no Made in U.S.A. on the right side of the frame. That started in about the Spring of 1922.

Also, I'd bet money the cartridge stamp on the barrel (which I cannot read in the picture) says 32 W.C.F. CTG. Sometime in 1922, that changed to 32-20 CTG.

For comparison:
.32-20 HE # 80567 shipped in April, 1919.
.32-20 HE # 80816 shipped in January, 1919.

Manufactured 1915 - 1940 in a s/n range from 65701 to 144684.

We have confirmed ship dates for .32-20 HE revolvers in the 141000 range that left Springfield in 1928 and 1929. We have one in the 143500 range that shipped in 1931. Hence, many of us have concluded that they were NOT still in production as late as 1940, although they did remain in the catalog until that year. It would seem that they actually were all made before about 1930, although some may have been assembled from parts on hand during the 1930s.

 

[murphydog]

Good information above. It was probably officially named a .32-20 Military & Police; the 1905 name was probably only used around that year to differentiate from the earlier model of 1902, and the 4th change designation is a collector's term.

With very few exceptions (a special order or gunsmith project), virtually any S & W .32-20 will be an M & P of some flavor. These seem to have a high incidence of bulged barrels from squib loads so be sure to check for this.

 

[StrawHat]

I have also seen these referred to as the Winchester Model as they were the only S&W at that time chambered for a Winchester cartridge.

At serial 81287 or so, they started to heat treat the cylinders.

Kevin

 

[jas78]

Thanks for the info, folks.

EDIT: Muley Gil, I DID find the SN under the barrel! And its somewhat clearer than the one on the butt. It's actually 90157.

JP@AK, you would win money on that bet.

murphydog, thanks for that. I'll double check it for a bulge.

Much appreciated everyone!

 

[jchodur]

Exactly what makes a M & P a M & P versus some other model? Is there a specific set of features? For example; fixed sights and square butt or just the fact that it was marketed to police and military?
jchodur

 

[glowe]

Thanks for the info, folks.

EDIT: Muley Gil, I DID find the SN under the barrel! And its somewhat clearer than the one on the butt. It's actually 901587. . .

Serial number range for the 32-20 was 1 to 144,684, so you have too many numbers? Could the first character be a "B" and not a "9"? it appears that the gun has been refinished and maybe was blue when it left the factory??

 

[Muley Gil]

Exactly what makes a M & P a M & P versus some other model? Is there a specific set of features? For example; fixed sights and square butt or just the fact that it was marketed to police and military?
jchodur

This, although the US military didn't buy many until WW II.

 

[DWalt]

Good information above. It was probably officially named a .32-20 Military & Police; the 1905 name was probably only used around that year to differentiate from the earlier model of 1902, and the 4th change designation is a collector's term.

S&W abandoned the "Model of 1905" and "Model of 1902" terminology for K-frame revolvers around 1915-16. Thereafter S&W called them all M&Ps. But the "Model of.." designation continues in use among collectors for guns made up until WWII. And the "Nth Change" designation is a collector invention, and was never used by S&W. As Jack said earlier, SN evidence indicates that manufacture of .32-20 M&Ps likely ceased around 1930, but completed guns in inventory were sold until 1940, and possibly some were made up and sold after 1930 from pre-1930 components remaining in stock. One .32-20 M&P was allegedly shipped in 1965.

 

[DWalt]

Exactly what makes a M & P a M & P versus some other model? Is there a specific set of features? For example; fixed sights and square butt or just the fact that it was marketed to police and military?
jchodur

Most K-frame M&Ps were made up in .38 Special (the most by far) and .32-20, but there were also a few other M&P calibers made in small numbers, such as .32 S&W Long, .38 S&W, and even .22 RF. There were also some target M&Ps made which incorporated adjustable rear sights. I think the "M&P" handle was mainly an advertising gimmick suggesting to civilian purchasers that they were the choice for use by military services and Police departments, therefore, they must be pretty good shooters. While the U. S. Military did buy small numbers of M&Ps during the early production period, they were not used by the military in any significant quantity until WWII, and then mainly by the U.S. Navy. And of course, by the British Commonwealth military. in .38 S&W caliber.

The competitive Colt model to the S&W M&P was first called the "Army Special", but likewise, the U. S. military bought only a very few of them. In the mid-1920s, Colt changed the name of essentially the same revolver from the "Army Special" to the "Official Police," mainly to promote Police purchases. Colt was successful in doing this and sold tons of them to cops.

 

[glowe]

This, although the US military didn't buy many until WW II.

The 1899 was often called just "Military" and they did sell a few thousand of this model and Model 1902 to the military. I believe there was a strategic plan when the "Police" was added to directly promote the Military & Police revolver to law enforcement since no big contracts were in the offing for the early K frames. They mention the Police in the text, but not in the name of their K frame revolvers in the early years.

From 1900 to 1914, S&W catalog pages listed this model as the 38 Military and the first mention of the M&P in their catalogs that I have is the D-1 Catalog from 1919. Pages are from 1900, 1914, and 1919 catalogs.

 

[jas78]

Serial number range for the 32-20 was 1 to 144,684, so you have too many numbers? Could the first character be a "B" and not a "9"? it appears that the gun has been refinished and maybe was blue when it left the factory??

I'm afraid I just fumbled it and added a digit. I've corrected above, but the correct sn appears to be 90157.

 

[Muley Gil]

Looks like 80157 to me.

The lack of a "B" before the SN under the barrel indicates this revolver left Springfield Mass with nickel plate.

 

[jchodur]

Thank you all for the education.

jchodur

 

[handejector]

I see no signs of this gun being refinished. I think it wears the original nickel.