Help Identifying Inherited Revolver

[JoeN.]

I inherited my father-in-law's revolver and it is apparently older than I thought from attempts I have made to identify it. His business was robbed around Christmas of 1976 and I thought he purchased the gun soon after that. The gun looks relatively new, though is has a few nicks on it, and doesn't look like it has been shot much at all. What confuses me is from what I have read this gun could have been made up through about 1961, V serial #, but I thought he bought it new so I don't see how it could have been sitting in a gun shop for 15 or 16 years. I don't have any pictures yet but will try to post some in the next day or two.

Here is the information I have gathered from the gun:

1. Hand ejector

2. S/N V 457765

3. 38 S&W CTG

4. 5" barrel

5. Fixed sights

There is a strain screw on the front grip strap.

This is not a butt swivel but there is a round plug where one might be installed.

There are 5 screws. The top screw is covered by the grip but the grip has a rounded top.

There is a small P stamped into the frame on the left side, behind and just about the cylinder.

 

[Jim Watson]

V = Victory Model Military & Police, WWII substitute standard military sidearm. I don't know the exact date, but sometime 1943ish.
In .38 S&W, it likely went to England or other Commonwealth country.

Cutting off the lanyard loop was pretty common for them when sold surplus.

A lot of the .38 S&Ws (.38/200, .380 Revolver in British use) were reamed to accept .38 Specials for surplus sale in the USA.
Will FiL's gun chamber Specials? Brass will bulge but not often split.

 

[deadin]

I thought he bought it new

Buying from a dealer or distributor doesn't necessarily mean it is "new".
These were sold as surplus for many years after the war. Some were well used, some in excellent condition, some unissued and many refurbished....

 

[Arik]

The V stands for Victory and were shipped to English forces in ww2. Later they were sold back as surplus. Original caliber is 38s&w or 38/200 (same thing). It's a different caliber from the 38spl and are not interchangeable

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[Absalom]

The serial puts it in late 1943. If it's in suspiciously good condition, has non-original stocks (since a screw is covered, they must be), the lanyard hole is professionally plugged, and you do not mention the US PROPERTY stampings (which I think you would have since you noted the much less conspicuous P proof), or any British post-war proof which are at least commonly to be expected, I think a refinish is highly likely and therefore also a conversion of the cylinder to .38 Special.

 

[JoeN.]

Thanks for all the information. I never would have suspected the pistol was that old. I will still try to post some pictures. I will find a 38 Special cartridge and see if the cylinder has been modified. I suspected the grips were not original since there was no serial # inside either grip.

 

[JoeN.]

Here are some pictures of my revolver. It apparently was cleaned up for resale as I cannot find any markings other than Smith & Wesson, the CTG marking, the patent markings, and Made in USA.

 

[JoeN.]

I am not sure how many pictures I can post at a time so here are a few more.

 

[Targets Guy]

Nice looking Victory model.

 

[Absalom]

Interesting. Finish looks original, except hammer doesn't look case-colored, but that could be lighting. Existing rollmarks crisp, so removal of other stamps should be visible, which I don't notice anywhere. Cylinder not converted. Post-war magnas.

 

[les.b]

Nice photos Joe. Is the bore as clean as the chambers seem to be? I am thinking that it doesn't look refinished, and thus if there were British proofs, they would still be there. Perhaps it never made it to England? There are lots of specialists who will no doubt know whether this is a possibility or not.

Anyway, it is a wonderful family treasure, and certainly looks in good enough shape to fire. You might want to flush out the inner workings with a spray CLP type cleaner, lubricant, after removing the stocks. That would help clean out any dried up lube and gunk. Make it a very smooth action also... Probably.

Best Regards, Les

 

[Absalom]

I don't see this mentioned in your posts yet: Have you checked for matching serial numbers (except for the stocks; we know they don't)? Easily checkable ones should be on the cylinder face and on the flat on the underside of the barrel. A bit harder to read is the one on the back of the extractor star. They should all match the butt serial. Given the gun's finish condition, they have to be present and complete.

 

[JoeN.]

The bore is as clean or cleaner than the chambers. I can't find any serial numbers other than on the butt. The cylinder face and the ejector star are clean, no numbers. The lack of numbers is one reason I suspect the cylinder may have been changed out. I need to find a 38 Special cartridge and check the fit.

 

[DWalt]

"The cylinder face and the ejector star are clean, no numbers. The lack of numbers is one reason I suspect the cylinder may have been changed out."

That's a valid suspicion, especially if the chambering is .38 Special, and not bored from .38 S&W. After the late 1950s, the cylinder and extractor star were not serial numbered. Seems like a transplant of a more recent cylinder. Do the assembly numbers inside the yoke area match? How about the SN on the bottom of the barrel?

 

[JoeN.]

There are no serial numbers inside the yoke area or on the bottom of the barrel. The only number I could find is on the butt.

In response to Absalom's question, both the hammer and trigger are case hardened. My lighting didn't allow the case hardening to show up.

 

[les.b]

Well, we guys here on the forum are always interested in collector minutiae, which affects value. I think that that looks like a really nice revolver, in good shape, which will, once we find out what caliber it actuall is, make a fine shooting gun and a great heirloom.

Best Regards, Les

 

[Absalom]

That's a new one for me. Not just a swapped-out cylinder, but apparently a frame re-assembled with all new replacement parts including barrel and cylinder, and I mean new, not cannibalized from other parts guns.

...... once we find out what caliber it actually is,....

Actually, looking at the location of the pronounced shoulders in the chambers in the cylinder photo, I'm fairly certain it's the original .38 S&W even without the cartridge test.

It appears someone assembled this gun post-war from factory parts that were never used, hence the absence of proofs and ordnance marks, both US and others.

So that makes for a very nice gun, and a real curiosity.

The one thing that still bugs me is the P proof on the frame without a US PROPERTY stamp. The only explanation is that this frame originally belonged to a US version DSC or USMC gun.

 

[deadin]

When and where would the "P" proof been applied?
Any chance that it was before the "U.S. Property" mark and production stopped between the two times?
In that case wouldn't completed but unassembled parts just be boxed up and surplussed out regardless of where they were in the production line?
This gun could have been completed from surplus parts bins....... (or even a "lunchbox special")
(The apparent lack of assembly numbers is also interesting)

 

[DWalt]

Although I would have extreme difficulty in parting with $75 to get a letter, its contents might be interesting. I can think of several ways it might have gotten to its current configuration, but they are pure guesswork.

 

[sandspur6]

If memory serves, some of these revolvers were sold domestically, during the war, for police and security guard use at dams, war plants, etc. May be one of these.