help identifying old S&W revolver grips

[paroikoi]

Hi all,
I'm new here. I just got a pair of old S&W revolver grips in a lot with some other stuff I bought at a garage sale. Can any of you please help me ID these, and possibly place a value on them? I have no need for them but want to find out what they are to price them appropriately. They are black rubber, marked "PAT'D JAN. 29, 78" on the bottom outside edge of the left grip, and hand scribed with "43886" on the inside of the right grip.

Here are some photos:

Smith And Wesson Grips by iokiorap4gew | Photobucket

Thanks in advance,
Josh

 

[rct269]

It is often difficult to respond to questions such as these for lack of useful information. This time-----a piece of cake!!

First, thank you for your ruler!! That tells right off what the grips are not. What they are is a pair of of grips for a #3 frame revolver----the big one. The number on the inside of the right hand panel is the serial number of the gun they left Springfield with---another bit of good information. A cursory glance at THE book suggests they left attached to a .44 Double Action 1st Model. I'll be back with a red face if I find a cursory glance wasn't enough to justify that conclusion.

As to the value, I haven't the first clue. I bought a pristine pair of (smaller/scarcer) hard rubber target grips for a single shot the better part of 20 years ago for $250---and was as happy as a clam. There will likely be others along who will likely have more up to date information/opinions.

Ralph Tremaine

Okay, I'm sticking to my original conclusion---subject to conflicting conclusions from any and all---especially those who have forgotten more than I know about the older guns. As an aside (or two), this particular gun was made from 1881 to 1913---numbering in excess of 50,000 (with a couple of variations which will add another 15,000 or so). I suspect the black hard rubber grips were the most common fitted, there also being red (mottled) hard rubber, and walnut grips used---not to mention Pearl and Ivory (in MUCH smaller numbers). I believe these grips will also fit the earlier New Model #3 Single Action revolver, but I no longer have a double action example for comparison.

The patent information on the grips has me stumped---primarily because the three sets of similar grips that live here now don't have that. My best guess is these are later grips than mine (later defined as 20th century).

 

[murphydog]

Welcome! From the dimensions they appear to be for a round butt K or medium frame revolver, most likely a .38 Military & Police from the first decade of the 1900s. I don't have my serial number reference handy but the number scratched into the stock panel will tell you about how old they are when someone else sees this post. Hope this is helpful.

Edit to add: Ralph may be correct, I think the grip frame size of a .44 DA and a RB K frame may be the same however - not sure.

 

[paroikoi]

Thank you both!

Josh

 

[rct269]

NO CIGAR

Welcome! From the dimensions they appear to be for a round butt K or medium frame revolver, most likely a .38 Military & Police from the first decade of the 1900s. I don't have my serial number reference handy but the number scratched into the stock panel will tell you about how old they are when someone else sees this post. Hope this is helpful.

Edit to add: Ralph may be correct, I think the grip frame size of a .44 DA and a RB K frame may be the same however - not sure.

Now THAT never even occurred to me! Now that it has, thanks to Alan, a bit of screwdriver work says, Nope---not even close. That said, the 1902 K frame round butt grips ARE the same as the 1905's.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Brian in SLC]

I believe these grips will also fit the earlier New Model #3 Single Action revolver, but I no longer have a double action example for comparison.

I think they're too small for the NM #3. Shame...I could use a pair (my pair has one side busted and missing a large piece).

Nice looking grips.

(My guess is they're right the DA model in .44 - I just measured mine and they're right at 3" tall).

 

[glowe]

Hard rubber stocks patented in 1878 pretty much narrows down the possibilities. Only the 38 Single Action and the New Model 3 are options. No K frame revolver stocks have worn that patent date that I am aware of and the New Model stocks visually differed from the K frame successors. The front toe of the stock should be a sharp corner on the NM3s and rounded on the K frame. I'm with Ralph on this one, since the 38 SA stocks of the era were medium size, which remained the same on the 38 DA and the early I frames.

I tried to add a couple of pictures to show the difference at the toe. The NM3 is the second picture and is wearing K frame stocks. K frame is rounded and NM3 has a square toe, but are close to the same size.

 

[rct269]

I don't know beans from apple butter about round toes and square toes, but Gary's right---now that I look at them right in front of my face.

Here's what I do know (without comparing one grip to another grip---with one each of those grips in my grubby little paws----which is what I did yesterday): The grip in the (OP's) photo (top row, right side) is about----ABOUT 3" tall---TALL. A NM #3 grip sitting butt down on the table next to a ruler sitting flat/square down on the same table is 3 3/16" TALL----doing my best to hold both the gun and the ruler flat down on the table at the same time. Same drill with a round butt K frame------3". Now, I make no claim about deadly accurate measuring. I used a yard stick graduated in eighths---I have a machinist's rule graduated in hundredths----micrometers graduated in thousandths and ten thousandths----all of which comes under the heading of overkill for this exercise. Now, given the admittedly crude set-up----and the surprisingly close measurement (3/16"), I went one better--measured how LONG they are---as opposed to how high they are---top to bottom on the (more or less) centerline---which is what you see holding the grips in your hand. The NM #3 grip is 3 3/8" LONG----K frame is 2 7/8". That's not surprisingly close-----that's A BUNCH!!

And the .38 SA grip is 2 5/8" LONG---on the centerline---another BUNCH!

THE END!!

Ralph Tremaine

 

[opoefc]

Th " Pat'd Jan. 29, 78" imprint found on the early hard rubber stocks is a design patent. There are three design drawings, numbers 10421, 10422 and 10423. Design patents are like today's trade mark copy rights. They were primarily for the .32 SA and .38 style of stock design, which had 3 different design styles. This patent imprint can be found on some S&W hard rubber stocks up until the early Model 1899 production. The design patents were filed to give S&W some protection against copies being made by other gun companies. Ed

 

[glowe]

I am now wondering if the factory changed the way they finished frames over time. I did look at a couple of my early 1899 and they do have that sharp front corner of the butt-frame, but my 1902s and 1905s have the rounded front edge. I guess it would be easy to hit it a little more with the file to change the shape.

 

[paroikoi]

Thanks, everyone! Any idea what they're worth? Anyone got some M1 Garand parts (more up my alley) they'd want to trade for them?

Josh