Help the rookie out?

[ecuFishbowl]

So I'm pretty sure I'm getting a 15-22 for Christmas, and I'm debating on getting a red dot sight. If I get a red dot, I plan on getting the primary arms micro. The thing is, I don't know if a red dot is what I want. This is my first gun, and I have always enjoyed shooting with iron sights. The red dots that I have looked at in person seem like the dots are more like red blobs...I feel like that would definitely decrease my accuracy considering I will be shooting this gun on paper at the range. Should I be looking for a low power scope or go for the red dot?

 

[Lee D]

irons or a nice 4X. that's plenty of zoom for a .22

 

[Aceman58]

EcuFishbowl, it really depends on what you are planning to shoot the M&P for. CQB (Close Quarter Battle) were a Red Dot and iron sights are just the ticket... or.... Targeting bullseye or small rodent terriorist hunting which means a 4X magnified scope for longer (up to 100 yards) shooting. The M&P is a clone of the AR platform so it was intended for CQB wth some long distant shooting and this being a 22LR, well, it kinda limits your long distant due to the caliber size. Learning to shoot the M&P like its big brother, AR15, in a tactical mannor can prove to be a lot of fun, so try this route first, you have the perfect weapon for it. Then since you can swap things off it, get a scope and try that out as well and see what your fancy is. Either way, you picked the right weapon for the job... Keepem in the 10 ring.. Note, Red Dot requires both eyes open using your brain to place that red dot on the target, it's a new learning procedure, but try it, it is really fast and fun.

Remember the AR15 and M&P 15/22 is the Chevy 350 of rifles, you have thousands of build for all the different kinds of shooting needs. Thus it is still being used by our Military for its diversity. It is almost modular in design and you can build and do as you please. Also there are thousands of vendors that are making Mil-spec aftermarket parts for this rifle that the sky is the limit.. So enjoy the building process, it's almost as fun as shooting the darn thing... Later..

 

[BlueLizard]

Re. red dots looking like blobs... do you suffer from astigmatism? I do, and find that red dots are often 'flared', but use of a 3x magnifier or co-witnessing through my rear BUIS helps to sharpen the dot up somewhat. Majority of my shooting is at 25 metres (about 27 yards in old money).

 

[63GMC]

If you like iron sights you should just wait and see how you like the stock sights. Some people run both. I think it called witnessing. Not entirely sure though, I'm a rookie too.

 

[HalfSwiss]

Generally, people co-witness iron/red dot sights. A lot of folks just pull the iron sights and go solely with red dot.

As for the "blob", the size of the dot, expressed in MOA (minute of angle) can vary quite a bit in size. You are probably seeing a lot of 5MOA dots. I prefer 2MOA and won't go larger than 3MOA. Others prefer large dots due to the type of shooting they do. I'm plinking at 10 to 100 yards, typically around 50 yards.

I wear prescription glasses, so I see a dot, not a flare, but frequently with cheap red dot sights the sight itself is flaring, not your eyes. I use the inexpensive but nice Primary Arms M4 red dot (2MOA, 4 different reticles) and it works great.

The nice thing about the red dot is that there is virtually no parallax and you shoot with both eyes open, easier for me than looking through a scope. Having said that, I do have a number of scoped rifles that I use often. But dots on my 15-22 and some of my handguns sure helps with old eyes.

Welcome to the game, you'll like it no matter which way you go.

 

[dbuffington]

So I'm pretty sure I'm getting a 15-22 for Christmas

Thank Santa profusely

, and I'm debating on getting a red dot sight. If I get a red dot, I plan on getting the primary arms micro. The thing is, I don't know if a red dot is what I want. This is my first gun, and I have always enjoyed shooting with iron sights.

So don't be in a hurry to get rid of the stock "iron" sights. They're actually quite good.

The red dots that I have looked at in person seem like the dots are more like red blobs...

It may be that the red dot sights you've seen simply have big dots (3-5 MOA). It may be that they've been set too bright. Or they may just be junky red dots with lousy optics.

Presuming you don't want to pay for a EOTech or Leupold, consider the Bushnell TRS-25 or Truglo "Traditional". Both are light, inexpensive and have been on the market long enough to be proven.

I feel like that would definitely decrease my accuracy considering I will be shooting this gun on paper at the range. Should I be looking for a low power scope or go for the red dot?

If you're shooting paper at the range, I'd definitely consider a scope. In fact, once you get past 25 yards, you'd probably prefer a scope.

Consider this little BSA number which Sportsman's Guide is still blowing out at $39.95.

(Hey, I can be a scope snob with the best of them, but I also own two of these BSAs, and they both function very, very nicely. It also has the only bullet drop compensation system that actually works ... once you figure it out. The instructions are less than useless.)

Enjoy!
Dave

 

[Shooting Padre]

I have a comparatively cheep reflex from SightMark. It works really well out to 50yds. I use the iron sights when it's in the off mode, just look through the glass. For the price, it really is accurate. Longer ranges I'd suggest a red dot scope. I wear tri-focals and have a fit with sight pictures, so the reflex is like a mini miracle for me. Everything is sharp.

 

[team sidewinder]

I would wait until you see how you like/shoot with the iron sights. I was suprised as I usually never was a good shooter with any iron sight but did quite will with the factory sights that come on the 15-22. I did put a 4X32 NcStar tactical scope on mine as the old eyes aren't what the use to be and for gophers at 25+ yards it works better for me. I have had some problems with the scope thing keeping its zero sometimes. I am still thinking I may just go back to the iron sights and save the 25-22 for a can plinker with a bolt action for gophers.

Your Santa must be way better than mine as he has NEVER brought me a gun for Christmas.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

A 1x red dot is designed for fast target acquisition with unlimited eye relief and field of view. For precision shooting at paper, these characteristics aren't of great advantage over iron sights. A magnified optic with crosshairs is best suited for precision shooting.

That said, a 1x red dot allows the shooter to focus only on the target without having to struggle focusing on the sights. My eyes are not as young as they used to be, so a 1x red dot is a real pleasure for me to use instead of iron sights. I use a Primary Arms MicroDot.

When shooting at paper, some folks complain that the red dot covers up too much of the bullseye, but there's nothing in the rule book that says a red dot must be used on center target. Here's how a 1x red dot can be used similarly to how you would use regular sights.






Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

[Dead eye 22]

Think of the type of shooting you will be doing, target, hunting, plinking etc. What ranges do you think you will be doing most of your shooting? Red Dots are good for fast action close in work, while scopes are better for grater ranges. Variable power scopes do a good job of covering both ends of the spectrum - 1-7, 2-6 etc. close to medium distance - 3-9 and up for reaching further out. A laser is a lot of fun, lets you shoot with out
bringing the gun up to your cheek. I've used one to shoot in low light, works well! If you hunt critters at night a mounted light is a necessity.
There are also scopes that have a laser built in to them, and some scopes have mounting surfaces to attach accessories directly to them.
Generally, I'd rather buy from the little guy. Recently found TacticalTed.com. They are family owned and have an extensive line of products. Another outfit RonsScopeSales.com. Lots to choose from and to consider. - Have Fun !

 

[Aceman58]

Some info on Red Dots: Don't rail road all Red Dots into one general rule of thumb. A good Red Dot, e.i. (Aimpoint ML2,3 &4) have a double lense to eliminate parallax. Lesser RD can be off a few inches under 50 yards since they only have 1 lense verus 2. Again not bad for CQB under 50 yards, you're still in the KILL ZONE. One of the reasons Aimpoint cost over $450..(also batt. life, shock proof and water proof are both very good). Again if you're not a SEALs team, Vortex and SightMark and a few others are more than fine for civilian type shooting. If your in LE or Military and need that kind of quality, pay the price, for it will save your life. The main failure of lesser price Red Dots are it ability to handle SHOCK, or recoil of the high powered rifle. For me I have gone through about 4 different brands (won't say them), and all have failed due to "unable to handle the recoil of my AR15 over a period of time". I don't soak them in water so it's not an issue for me.

Know what your paying for, I don't knock the other Red Dots, nor do I say "You must get the best Red Dot", get what fits your budget and uses. Know the limitations and you will enjoy your range day. Keepem in the 10 ring anyway you can...

 

[chuck s]

Dot sights (usually Red, but the Chinese clones seem to like Green as well), like all optics will be generally priced by the quality of their optics and electronics. While my SightMark looks just like an Aimpoint it ain't one. However for a plastic plinking .22LR rifle the clone works quite well and it's under $100 vs $400+.

The trajectory of .22LR is a large arc at typical .22LR ranges out to maybe 75 meters. But since the typical inexpensive dot is at least 4 MOA (or 2" ad 50 yards) the bullets will be either in or very close to the dot at these ranges if zeroed at 50 yards.

One of the best "duty" dot sights is the Aimpoint PRO model which only differs from the military spec CompMx models in the housing construction. This runs a little over $400 and includes the mount. I'm not necessarily recommending this for the M&P15-22 but when you get the complimentary 5.56mm version of this rifle look at it closely as it works very well.

Click on this photo. My M&P15-22 (top) is wearing the SightMark clone and is set up to match the carbine with the M68 CCO (an original Aimpoint CompM). Same controls, same drills, same sight. I'm still not sure about the EoTech 553 on the other carbine. 10+ years behind the M68 CCO makes the EoTech look a bit strange. The M4 Carbine is optics-less in the photo but usually wears an M68 over the handguards on an ARMS A2 mount.



Regulars here will detect transitional changes to these carbines. And they're still transitioning. Here's the lastest rendition of the LWRC M6-SL with an Aimpoint CompM4s and Aimpoint 3x telescope behind. Vast overkill for .22LR but very nice for 5.56mm.



-- Chuck