Help with ammo selection for recoil sensitive wife

[Austerity]

My wife finally told me she wanted to carry and get her permit last week. Saturday I picked up a new 642 for her, and Sunday I picked up an M&P 360 for myself. The idea was so have two similar guns that we could shoot together, taking nothing else to the range but these two. She is not strong enough to consistently rack the slide on a semi auto, and I do not think she needs any more than a 5 shot DAO J-Frame.

Today we shot some standard pressure FMJ 38 special, Winchester Supreme Elite PDX1 130GR +P, and Hornady Critical Defense 110GR +1. She had a lot of trouble with the standard pressure, and could barely finish 5 rounds of the other two, especially the Critical Defense. I picked this over an LCR because it was a bit heavier, but I believe it is still pretty punishing for her.

She shot well and feels more confident, but stated she would prefer to carry the standard pressure rounds for now.

So, with that said, what is the best standard pressure self defense round for a 642? I don't have a lot of experience, but I was leaning towards the Buffalo Bore "Standard Pressure Short Barrel Low Flash Heavy .38 Special Ammo - 158 gr. Soft Lead SWC-HC (850fps/M.E. 253 ft. lbs.)"

Standard Pressure Short Barrel Low Flash Hvy .38 Spl (Non + P) Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

Any other options or opinions would be greatly appreciated. We are not looking for +P power, but a standard pressure, low recoil round that is effective enough for me to feel confident in her carrying it until she becomes more proficient.

Thanks

EDIT: I was also considering the Federal Hydra-Shok Low Recoil 110Gr round.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/21...in-hydra-shok-jacketed-hollow-point-box-of-20

 

[handgunner356]

I would suggest that you get some 148gr wadcutters to build her up some. That would be the lightest shooting ammo available for .38 and would give you a good indication rather or not the gun is going to work out for her. I don't find the Airweights all that pleasant to shoot myself, but the idea is make them light enough you'll carry it instead of leaving it behind because it's too heavy. The longer magnum grips will help, but again they add bulk.

 

[Austerity]

I would suggest that you get some 148gr wadcutters to build her up some. That would be the lightest shooting ammo available for .38 and would give you a good indication rather or not the gun is going to work out for her. I don't find the Airweights all that pleasant to shoot myself, but the idea is make them light enough you'll carry it instead of leaving it behind because it's too heavy. The longer magnum grips will help, but again they add bulk.

I went into this knowing that it may not work for her. In fact, I nearly went with a 2 1/4 SP101 for the extra weight, but the weight was a factor for her and I figured we would do our best to train and work up to her proficiently shooting the Airweight, since there is a far greater chance that she will actually carry it.

 

[max]

I would recommend factory wadcutters.

 

[pete950]

Target WC's work great even for defense.
If you reload 2.9 0r 3.0 of BE and HBWC would not be a bad load for here.
Make it so she likes shooting make it fun for her.

Good luck

 

[StatesRightist]

There are not many rounds that expand out of a snub nose revolver, only 4 are considered good self defense rounds from everything I've read and researched. The DPX's and Gold Dot SB are +p. That leaves the 125 grain Nyclads and the 158 grain load you mention, it does not expand much though. I'd go w/ the Nyclads if I were you. LG Outdoors has them. Just my opinion.

 

[ContinentalOp]

My favorite low recoil load for a 642 is Federal 125gr Nyclad for carry/self-defense and 130gr FMJ from any of the major manufacturers for practice (right now I use PMC 132gr FMJ). The Nyclad load has a good track record in actual shootings. They shoot similarly, which is why I like them for a carry/practice combo.

By the way, just because it's standard pressure doesn't automatically mean low recoil. I've shot Nyclads back to back with BB standard pressure FBI loads in the same cylinder and the BB ammo has significantly more recoil than Nyclads. The BB ammo even had noticeably more kick than the Speer 135gr Short-Barrel Gold Dot +P I currently carry.

 

[badge 851]

I had similar issues with my wife. She wanted a light gun and chose a Mdl 37 Airweight®. It was fine, until she shot it. Using standard pressure 158gr ammunition it was too much recoil for her. To make a long story short, she carries a steel J frame and shoots Federal standard pressure 125gr Nyclad™ HP's; - Problem Solved. If you can get a Mdl 36 or the Ruger® SP101 and Nyclad™'s she will love shooting it.

 

[gmiller0737]

Might want to try Winchester's Standard Pressure 110gr Silvertips

 

[captainjohnsofd]

Did you try some type of aftermarket grip for her? A smaller profile rubber grip like the new S&W J frame grip or Uncle Mike's Boot grip are still small for her hands but would absorb some of the recoil. My wife had the same trouble with her Model 37 until I changed the grips.

 

[Pisgah]

The standard-velocity Nyclads are mild enough for 'most anyone, and target wadcutters even more-so. Either is fine for short-range self defense.

 

[Austerity]

Thanks for all the input. I took the stock S&W grips off and installed a spare set of Hogue Bantam grips I had, but they still leave the backstrap exposed and do not feel much different, although they may absorb recoil more. If anyone has a specific grip recommendation that will still conceal well, i'm all ears.

With that said, I think I'm going to order 2 boxes of Nyclads and see how she handles them.

 

[Joni_Lynn]

I recommend finding a grip or stock for the gun that fits her hand. Having a grip that fit you correctly helps a lot with recoil control.
Something I do when showing some people to shoot is to tell them and then show them that while there is recoil the guns kick isn't going to do harm to them. I had a friends daughter shooting my 1911 that way.
I'll also recommend the 148 wadcutter ammo.

This is my 60-7 with Herrett's Detective stock. Being wood it won't hang up on clothing like rubber might. They're a bit large since I have large hands.

 

[1 old 0311]

I would suggest that you get some 148gr wadcutters to build her up some. That would be the lightest shooting ammo available for .38 and would give you a good indication rather or not the gun is going to work out for her. I don't find the Airweights all that pleasant to shoot myself, but the idea is make them light enough you'll carry it instead of leaving it behind because it's too heavy. The longer magnum grips will help, but again they add bulk.

+1 on the Wadcutters. Very little recoil, and a nice clean hole.

 

[CTI1USNRET]

Whenever I encounter someone who can't handle recoil I ALWAYS SEE POSTURE PROBLEMS.
Watch for these DON'Ts
* leaning back from the gun with stomach forward,
* holding the handgun close to the face with elbows down,
* crooked wrists and elbows that do not transmit the recoil straight to the shoulder.

A good posture transmits the recoil along the arm to the shoulder to the entire body.

Even a 500 S&W is tamed with proper posture.

 

[BurgerBoy]

I put a Houge full size grip on my 642 and it shoots just fine now and you hardly feel the recoil. http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge...ogrip-j-frame-like-dislike.html#post136236037

 

[Austerity]

Even more great advice. Great forum, thanks.

 

[Stu Honea]

I would also suggest wadcutters,the sharper the shoulder,the better.
Does your wife have a disability? I ask only because my wife does,has occured in the last two years and her hand strength has diminished to the extent that she no longer felt confident racking the slide of her G26. She is now using a customed up Mod.10-5 and is really good with it ,but she is a shooter.
The light weight of the airweight gun only leaves a few options for her that would not be intimidating or punishing from recoil. The wadcutters are one option,and the very expensive DPX is another. Some might suggest the Hornady
Critical Defense,which may prove to be another option,but I have no personal experience with it,nor am I familier with any real world shooting results with it
I would have suggested the SP101,but if that amount of weight was a problem,you may have made the best choice.
Best of luck with your choices.

ETA: I just noticed that the Nyclad was mentioned a couple of times.I would agree that it would be worth trying also. It was a pretty good snubby load in past years and I assume that since it came back into production,it is the same load and would work pretty well.

 

[kraigwy]

I use Winchester Super Match in my 642. Its a 158 grn LSWC, mild to shoot and accurate.

It's accuatual velocity (at 10 ft) is just north of 750 fps out of my 642. It gives you the needed penitration, but again is mild to shoot.

It works too. Haven't shot any two legged critters but I did have to put down a horse and it did that.

Being a cheap sucker I shoot mostly reloads, I found the Winchester 158s shoot exactly like my 150 grn LSWC (Lyman mold 358477) and 4.5 grns of Unique.

I've tried +Ps, and they I just don't shoot them as well. With the standard velocity, I shoot more, and hit more. I like shooting the same style load I carry.

Even my wife who can't handle any recoil (she had three rods in her back between her shoulder blades from breaking it) shoots the Winchester bullet out of my 642 without any difficulty.

Remington makes the same style bullet and load but I got too many fail to fires out of the Remington stuff, some requiring two or three hammer strikes with my 642 to get them to go off. The Winchesters fire every time.

 

[Stu Honea]

Good info,kraigwy. That Super Match load is the X38SMRP.

Dr.Gary Roberts testing showed that the wadcutter round gives exactly the same performance through bare gel and four layer denim.
Per Doc Roberts there are a couple of California departments whose officers have used the round with good sucess from their snubs.