Help with identification

[jester2844]

I have what i believe is a pre model 35 with a serial number of 178xx. It has 5 screws and two things that are off about it. the first is that it doesnt have the s&w stamp on the gun the other is a pin on the left side of the gun between the cylinder and the trigger. The barrel is stamped smith and wesson.

 

[jester2844]

it is a 22lr

 

[murphydog]

This appears to be a K-22 Outdoorsman from between 1935-'40. The serial number will be on the bottom of the grip frame, probably somewhere in the 600,000 range. It has earlier (1920s) stocks, a post-war K-22 or model 17 barrel with a different front sight, and the logo has been polished off during a refinish. Hope this is helpful.

 

[jester2844]

there is no serial number on the grip the only number I can find on the gun is when I open the cylinder and as I said before it is 178xx

 

[murphydog]

If there are no numbers on the bottom of the grip frame, they were probably also removed with the refinish. This is the location of the SN of a gun of this era; the number you mentioned is a factory internal code called an assembly number.

Unfortunately, a gun missing its SN is illegal to possess. If you see a number on the rear cylinder face, that may be the SN and you may be able to have it legally restamped with that number, but the process to allow this may be difficult. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

 

[jester2844]

well that sucks if the serial number has been removed. Can you explain the pin between the tigger and the cylinder on the left side in the close up picture.

 

[handejector]

Can you explain the pin between the tigger and the cylinder on the left side in the close up picture.

That is simply the end of the trigger stud.
Your gun also has a post-war, short action hammer.

 

[DCWilson]

Look at the rear face of the cylinder, the flat underside of the barrel, and the underside of the ejector star. At the probable time of this gun's original manufacture, the serial number once found on the butt would be repeated in those locations. There should be a K prefix, as the basic frame of that gun dates from the late 1940s through 1955.

There are some oddities, though. The stocks are from before 1920, the rear sight appears to be of the prewar style that was not used after WWII, and the front sight blade has been either ground down or replaced to work with the non-standard rear sight.

Can you provide a photograph of the top of the rear sight so we can see how many screws there are in it and how large they are?

The number you see on the concealed frame surface that is revealed when you swing the cylinder open is a soft-fitting number. It had no meaning once the gun was given final assembly and sent to inventory.

 

[handejector]

There should be a K prefix, as the basic frame of that gun dates from the late 1940s through 1955.

Look at the barrel-frame junction.
That frame shipped with a round, non-ribbed barrel.

 

[DCWilson]

Look at the barrel-frame junction.
That frame shipped with a round, non-ribbed barrel.

Well, I did look at that and the mismatch is part of what led me to think that was a prewar sight stuffed into a postwar frame. I misremembered the way the newer front sight foot steps to the rib; I incorrectly recalled it went all the way forward to a slight step down at the the rear of the barrel rib. Here's the way a K-22 Masterpiece of this era ought to look in that region.

So are we to interpret this gun as a rebarreled Pre-Model 45 modified with the addition of a prewar sight? How then to explain the top sideplate screw, unless there were some short-action .22 M&Ps manufactured earlier than I thought they were. Which could well be since I don't know jack about those guns.

The more I think about this gun the less I know about it. I've stared at it so much now my eyes hurt, and I don't even know if it's a K-frame any more.

ADDED FIVE MINUTES LATER: Now it is beginning to look to me like a prewar .22/32 that has had a Model of 1953 barrel screwed onto it. But how then to explain that hammer and the lack of a visible hammer stud on the left side of the frame?

Drinking time. If the cupboard is bare I will just melt some shoe polish and consume that.

 

[handejector]

Occam sez-
Always try the simplest explanation first.


It is probably a K-22 OD with a post-war barrel, ejector rod, and hammer.

 

[murphydog]

David, I thought odd I or J frame at first also, but the speed hammer and the trigger guard proportions and shape got me on the K frame trail.

 

[DCWilson]

Gotta love a gun forum where the administration quotes medieval philosophers in support of a position.

That Bill Occam is a great guy. I was a friend of Bill O. once. I guess I need to get forswear speculation and wild coincidence mongering and get back on the simplicity wagon.

I still worry some about the absence of an exposed hammer stud end. I guess everything just got polished really flat and featureless in the clean-up and restoration.

To the OP: I'd still be interested in hearing if a serial number is legible in the secondary locations mentioned above.

 

[jester2844]

Ok I was able to locate a serial number behind the star its 633xxx. I have included more photos as well. they are from my phone so im sorry for the quality.

 

[murphydog]

It appears someone removed the original (taller) front sight base and blade, and replaced it with one to compensate for the lower rear sight.

Others may chime in as to the feasibility of the SN restamping process.

"I was a friend of Bill O. once."

Is that the Smith & Wesson 12-step program?

 

[DCWilson]

Great pictures: Thank you.

Both Mr. Jarrett and Mr. Occam are correct, and you have an early (1931, probably) K-22 Outdoorsman frame that now sports a postwar barrel, 'teens-era stocks, and some replacement parts -- certainly the hammer, and I would guess the trigger as well. The taller sight on the postwar barrel has been filed down to work with the prewar sights.

 

[DCWilson]

"I was a friend of Bill O. once."

Is that the Smith & Wesson 12-step program?

Indeed. You buy 12 guns, then you buy 12 more, then...

 

[jester2844]

Thanks for the info. Is there suppose to be a sn on the frame and if so what can I do about it. Also what do you think this is worth

 

[DCWilson]

ATF regulations require the frame to be serial numbered. You would expect to see the number on the bottom of the grip frame if it was still there. Sometimes a damaged serial number is restamped on the grip frame under the grip panels. With ATF permission, and evidence that the number is correct, you can get authorization for a gunsmith to do that.

As a put-together gun, your revolver has some value as a shooter, but no collector value. Shooter grade value is probably somewhere in the $150-200 range. But that's only if it is legal. Most gun stores and all knowledgeable buyers would not pursue that gun.

The best thing to do with it from a monetary point of view might be to part it out. The stocks seem to be in excellent condition and would be of interest to many collectors. If you discard the frame, the barrel and action parts could probably be sold for more than their assembled worth.

 

[Hondo44]

You have what is known as a Frankengun. Sending you a private meassge.