Help with J frame grip Question

[RGNewell]

I have a Model 36 serial# 628Jxx ANIB The grips Have black washers and each grip has a J stamped on the inside. The rt grip also has 4 digits stamped in it with no relationship to the serial number. Prospective new owner thinks the grips should be numbered to the gun.
I just removed the grips from a model 37 serial number in the 1Jxxxx range. both grips have a J stamped and black washers. The rt grip also has 4 digits not related to the serial number, and it too is a like new gun.
Can anyone put a definitive answer to if the grips should have the serial number on the rt grip?
Thanks in advance

 

[OldSparky]

From what I've learned, they stopped numbering the stocks in the late 70's.

Don't have my catalog with me at the moment to see production year of those two.

My M36 is from 69/70 and the right panel has matching serial number to the gun

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[s&wchad]

Assuming both guns have 6 character serial numbers (J + 5 digits), your model 36 dates to around 1972 and your 37 to around 1971. Both would have come from the factory with Magna stocks containing blue circle inserts (washers), but your non-matching stocks are almost certainly not factory original. About the only gun I can think of that was sold with mismatched Magna stocks is the 520.

S&W standardized on stainless circle inserts in 1973, but I’ve seen blued circle inserts in matching numbered stocks, on guns that dated as late as 1975 (DPD 2” Model 12). I have no doubt they used up old inventory, since S&W was famous for never throwing things away.

The change to stainless was done to standardize inventory. Before 1973, blued and nickel guns had stocks with blued inserts and stainless guns had stocks with stainless inserts.

 

[RGNewell]

Assuming both guns have 6 character serial numbers (J + 5 digits), your model 36 dates to around 1972 and your 37 to around 1971. Both would have come from the factory with Magna stocks containing blue circle inserts (washers), but your non-matching stocks are almost certainly not factory original. About the only gun I can think of that was sold with mismatched Magna stocks is the 520.

S&W standardized on stainless circle inserts in 1973, but I’ve seen blued circle inserts in matching numbered stocks, on guns that dated as late as 1975 (DPD 2” Model 12). I have no doubt they used up old inventory, since S&W was famous for never throwing things away.

The change to stainless was done to standardize inventory. Before 1973, blued and nickel guns had stocks with blued inserts and stainless guns had stocks with stainless inserts.

I am confused. The stocks are definitely factory with blued washers. If what you are saying is true, why don't they have serial numbers on the right grip. These 2 guns are mint, very odd that neither would have the original grips.

 

[s&wchad]

Your stocks are factory original, but they were fitted to and almost certainly shipped on other guns. At some later point, the owners purchased correct period Magna stocks to restore the guns to their original configuration.

At that time, S&W fitted the stocks to the frames before the finishes were applied. Bluing and wood finishing was done in different departments, so the right panel was numbered to the frame so the components could be reunited at assembly. That was standard procedure through most of the 70’s.

It’s quite common for guns and stocks to be separated over the years. I literally have tubs of factory fitted and numbered stocks that I purchased on the second hand market. Rubber grips were very common back then (still are today) and countless aftermarket makers like Roper, Herrett’s, Sanderson, Siegel, Mustang, Jay Scott and Fitz offered custom stocks, so owners could personalize their guns.

 

[RoyS]

To everyone who has posted on this thread - thank You..!

As a novice collector, I have enjoyed and learned a great deal about this interesting topic.

Cheers,

Roy

 

[RGNewell]

Your stocks are factory original, but they were fitted to and almost certainly shipped on other guns. At some later point, the owners purchased correct period Magna stocks to restore the guns to their original configuration.

At that time, S&W fitted the stocks to the frames before the finishes were applied. Bluing and wood finishing was done in different departments, so the right panel was numbered to the frame so the components could be reunited at assembly. That was standard procedure through most of the 70’s.

It’s quite common for guns and stocks to be separated over the years. I literally have tubs of factory fitted and numbered stocks that I purchased on the second hand market. Rubber grips were very common back then (still are today) and countless aftermarket makers like Roper, Herrett’s, Sanderson, Siegel, Mustang, Jay Scott and Fitz offered custom stocks, so owners could personalize their guns.

Then why don't they have a serial number on them?

 

[s&wchad]

Then why don't they have a serial number on them?

You said in your initial post that both sets of stocks have 4 digits stamped in them and the numbers don’t relate to your guns serial numbers. I can only assume that those numbers relate to different guns. How about a photo of the back of the stocks.

The factory did sell replacement stocks, but those weren’t numbered. They did sometimes have a code that was stamped in ink.

 

[JH1951]

For what it's worth, I have seen some aftermarket stocks marked with only the "J". It was, as said, not unusual for owners to replace composite factory grips with a nicer looking wood substitute. But, if both sets of wood stocks also have numbers, to me that indicates they went out the door on a piece that had that as a serial number.
I know some pieces were sent out with rubber from the factory, and the owners, having bought them used, assumed that they were wrong and bought wood replacements. This is a possibility.
In this instance, if the OP would post some pictures we may be able to resolve the issue with some definition.
In any event, to address the objection from a prospective buyer that the OP is wrestling with, If I was buying and saw a mismatched number on the stocks, I would assume the stocks to not have come with the gun originally. Would that impact what I was willing to pay? Likely so. If buying as a collector piece, absolutely so. If I was buying as a working tool, it wouldn't concern me much.

 

[Absalom]

If you’re old enough and, like me, didn’t come to S&W with a collector mindset right away, but spent many years just buying revolvers to carry and shoot, you may remember that in the 1970s and 1980s the general mindset tended to be that the wooden stocks on a new gun were just placeholders until you bought some “real” grips.

Particularly on the J and K frame snubbies, they didn’t fit anybody’s hand, so I usually bought the gun and some Pachmayrs at the same time. I threw away more than one pair of perfectly good wood back in those benighted days and didn’t feel I was doing anything reckless

So any gun from that era with non-matching stocks is not a surprise.

 

[RGNewell]

If you’re old enough and, like me, didn’t come to S&W with a collector mindset right away, but spent many years just buying revolvers to carry and shoot, you may remember that in the 1970s and 1980s the general mindset tended to be that the wooden stocks on a new gun were just placeholders until you bought some “real” grips.

Particularly on the J and K frame snubbies, they didn’t fit anybody’s hand, so I usually bought the gun and some Pachmayrs at the same time. I threw away more than one pair of perfectly good wood back in those benighted days and didn’t feel I was doing anything reckless

So any gun from that era with non-matching stocks is not a surprise.

I have been buying new and used Smith's since 1972 and have never bought a set of rubber grips, the only aftermarket grips I have ever bought were Keith Brown or Culina.
Here are the grips from Model 36 serial number 628J57.

 

[s&wchad]

I have been buying new and used Smith's since 1972 and have never bought a set of rubber grips, the only aftermarket grips I have ever bought were Keith Brown or Culina.
Here are the grips from Model 36 serial number 628J57.

Those are factory fitted and numbered stocks, but odds of them originally being supplied on a Model 36 with serial # 628J57 are slim to none.

I’m sorry that’s not what you wanted to hear.

 

[OldSparky]

If you’re old enough and, like me, didn’t come to S&W with a collector mindset right away, but spent many years just buying revolvers to carry and shoot, you may remember that in the 1970s and 1980s the general mindset tended to be that the wooden stocks on a new gun were just placeholders until you bought some “real” grips.



Particularly on the J and K frame snubbies, they didn’t fit anybody’s hand, so I usually bought the gun and some Pachmayrs at the same time. I threw away more than one pair of perfectly good wood back in those benighted days and didn’t feel I was doing anything reckless



So any gun from that era with non-matching stocks is not a surprise.

Lol. That's the same way i was. They were just used as the tool they are back then

My brother, now retired, from the sheriff's Dept, was the Range Master in the late 80's when the dept switched over to the 686's and had enough shipped in for the entire dept, 600+. They also had enough pachmayr grips there for everyone of those revolvers when they arrived. He immediately changed them out and threw the original stocks in a couple of boxes where they sat around for years. The dept told him that he could have them and he, like everyone else then, said they had no use for them and they all went into the dumpster. Over 600 sets of never used stocks were thrown into the trash

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[Absalom]

Over 600 sets of never used stocks were thrown into the trash ...

I’ve told this sad tale here before:

Sometime in the late 80s or so I bought a used Model 66 for a good price.

I found the target stocks too large for my hands, so I took a hacksaw and sawed them off flush with the butt of the frame (!!!).

That turned out not to look very professional, and feel weird, so they went into the trash and I got a set of rubbers.

The horror ...

 

[cmansguns]

Perplexed as others on J Frame stocks of the 60's

Not surprising I read this entire post with great interest as I also have a "mid-late sixties" Model 36 no-dash that was obtained from an estate and very near mint with original box, docs, even vapor paper. Such a minimal very light turn line it appeared very little use if at all to me and I was very happy with the final price for such a nice package.

Then the grief started! I usually do my research ahead of buying but waited on this one till home with my books, lights, tools, etc.

SO...…….. (MY Model 36 no dash s/n 501664)
1. SCSW shows made from 1950 - 1969 s/n #1 - 786544
2. SCSW shows 1962 s/n 295000; 1969 s/n 786544
This is it for serial number ranges published, so I made what we will call Assumption Number 1 and simply interpolated mine to be circa 1965, backed up in my novice collector opinion with the fact that the Model 36-1 came about in 1967.
3. I'm happy, my BATF books are happy, my insurance listing and gun write-ups are happy....all with 1965 and all "original" at this point.

Then the trouble starts by posting and the REAL EXPERTS on this Forum just start pointing things out, that make me get right back into this J Frame business.

So...some things pointed out by Absalom, Hondo 44, and many others that really know this stuff. Yes....everything they pointed out is easily verifiable as you peruse SCSW 3rd, 4th, other books, etc.

Mine: probably is 1968. Why: 2 pc Bangor Punta blue box = 1966-1985; standard latch (contoured), non diamond checkered magnas (diamond eliminated 1967-1968), serrated trigger.

Now, because of this post (thanks OP for bringing the subject up) I am even less sure than ever and may have to invest in another Letter to find out.

Technically I should have grips numbered to the gun. My stocks are not only, not numbered but they even have different washers (left panel blued steel, right panel stainless washer).
Left panel has black stenciled 7091, right panel no marks, or numbers. Both stocks have "gold washed" (brass?) medallions, and the stock screw is brass. The stainless washer on the right panel is magnetic, so must be 409/410 ferritic/martensitic stainless. Funny though, these two stocks are almost perfectly "book ended".

I again am reasonably sure the prior owner was the original owner, and the gun unused, and certainly the package price was OK with me (and still is regardless of the grip situation).

It appears obvious to me now, after reading this post, that my stocks were replaced by someone at sometime with probable factory originals, but are not the ones this exact gun may have shipped with.

Just more on the never ending fun and mystery of things Smith & Wesson.