home defense ideas

[infamous209]

so I have been thinkin lately about my mortality( mostly since i now have a baby on the way and it seems im getting "old") I also have running thoughts on what would i do if someone barged in the house flinging a gun with nothing to lose. I have a M&P 15 22 but it is stored in the closet empty and in a case. I really want a pistol that my lady and i can both shoot and i can feel comfortable knowing that if i werent home she could pull it out and stop an intruder. I am on a tight budget and would like to keep it under 350, I live in california so this limits me and i also would like to be able to mount a light for those night suprises. Can anyone help me?

 

[old bear]

Being young many years ago, I do UNDERSTAND that money can be tight when starting out. Keep in mind though if push ever comes to shove you will not only be defending yourself, but your wife and child, what are their lives worth?

As this is the S&W forum I hate to recommend anything but a Smith, yet one of the many Ruger's .357 Magnum revolvers. The Ruger is not as nicely finished as the Smith and Wesson products but they are tank tough and should give you years of good service.

 

[boingboing]

I would recommend a 12 ga shotgun but if that's not an option here's what I would suggest;

Nothing smaller than 9mm....peroid
Double action only
Night sights
And the capability to have a light mounted to it.

Since I detest ANYTHING plastic I would recommend one of the TSW Smiths like the 4046 (what I carry on and off duty), or one of the compact DAO TSW's. The reason I recommend DAO is for the simple reason that when the SHTF, unless you've trained alot you don't want to have to worry about decocking the hammer. Light mounted because the light will go where you point your weapon. Depending on how close your neighbors are and the layout of your home, you might want to consider a frangible round that won't go and pay a visit to your neighbor should you miss. If you prefer, God forbid, plastic, fine. Just make sure the gun fits both you and your wife's hand. Go to a range and rent a few. I bought my 4046 some years ago and the very same day I qualified with it I went home, put a magazine of Glaser Blue in and went to bed. At 3am someone broke in and I shot him. DRT. So I lost my gun for 18 months but my departments Officer's Association bought me another on. So now I have two. Not all guns are created equal, I prefer steel over plastic because I don't notice the recoil...steel doesn't flex and the harmonics are completely different. Go shoot a Glock .40 and a Smith .40, there is a tremendous difference in how they handle. But, like I said, get what fits you and your better half the best. Good luck, let us know what you get.

 

[infamous209]

I would recommend a 12 ga shotgun but if that's not an option here's what I would suggest;

Nothing smaller than 9mm....peroid
Double action only
Night sights
And the capability to have a light mounted to it.

Since I detest ANYTHING plastic I would recommend one of the TSW Smiths like the 4046 (what I carry on and off duty), or one of the compact DAO TSW's. The reason I recommend DAO is for the simple reason that when the SHTF, unless you've trained alot you don't want to have to worry about decocking the hammer. Light mounted because the light will go where you point your weapon. Depending on how close your neighbors are and the layout of your home, you might want to consider a frangible round that won't go and pay a visit to your neighbor should you miss. If you prefer, God forbid, plastic, fine. Just make sure the gun fits both you and your wife's hand. Go to a range and rent a few. I bought my 4046 some years ago and the very same day I qualified with it I went home, put a magazine of Glaser Blue in and went to bed. At 3am someone broke in and I shot him. DRT. So I lost my gun for 18 months but my departments Officer's Association bought me another on. So now I have two. Not all guns are created equal, I prefer steel over plastic because I don't notice the recoil...steel doesn't flex and the harmonics are completely different. Go shoot a Glock .40 and a Smith .40, there is a tremendous difference in how they handle. But, like I said, get what fits you and your better half the best. Good luck, let us know what you get.

i really like the 4046 looks really nice and a decent price but is it california legal and what does DRT mean?

 

[Wayne M]

I don't know of any pistol I would trust my life to that would sell in the $350 range today. Even used guns in my part of the world generally start priced around $500 with the possible exception of a used J Airweight, not the best choice for a HD gun.

 

[BEARMAN]

what does DRT mean?

Dead Right There.

 

[flatpik6]

My first thought is that I am happy to hear of your recognition of responsibility in protecting your household and providing for your wife to do the same. Congratulations on that.

Several years ago I came to the same recognition and luckily have a wife who was raised around firearms and therefore very receptive to the whole subject. We now have many firearms for various purposes but there is one strategically placed that is always there as a "go to" hdw.

It just happens to be a 1979 Ruger Security Six .357 in stainless steel with a 4" barrel and re-worked trigger. We both feel that in a pinch, a revolver is more sure than a semi-auto. We have several shotguns as well however a pump or semi-auto shotgun also presents more mechanical function than a standard revolver.

It's really a matter of what makes you and your wife feel comfortable however, no matter what you choose, even if it's a slingshot, spend time at a range becoming proficient with it.

 

[cshoff]

I don't know of any pistol I would trust my life to that would sell in the $350 range today. Even used guns in my part of the world generally start priced around $500 with the possible exception of a used J Airweight, not the best choice for a HD gun.

A Smith & Wesson Sigma comes to my mind. In fact, I trust my life to one every day, all day. New, they run around $359.00 in my neck of the woods, but it's possible to find them on sale for less. Available in 9mm or .40S&W, either will make a very capable self defense gun on the street, or in the home.

 

[Walker45]

Pistols are tough to come by at that price however, a 20 gauge shotgun with a collapsible stock so that both of you could operate it with no issues would be a solid choice.

 

[Snowbandit]

For inexpensive autos I like the D model Beretta 92 in 9MM and 96 in 40 S&W. These are often available as police/security turn-ins, many with dim night sights and sometimes with rails for a light. These work just like a revolver, double action for every shot and no safeties to forget. They're tough, reliable pistols that, in 9MM, use standard military M-9 magazines. They even have a hammer, just like a revolver, instead of being striker fires like so many of the others out there.

In a revolver you might find a serviceable Ruger in that price range. To find a S&W you might have to be in the right place at the right time. Good luck.

 

[Kanewpadle]

Being young many years ago, I do UNDERSTAND that money can be tight when starting out. Keep in mind though if push ever comes to shove you will not only be defending yourself, but your wife and child, what are their lives worth?

As this is the S&W forum I hate to recommend anything but a Smith, yet one of the many Ruger's .357 Magnum revolvers. The Ruger is not as nicely finished as the Smith and Wesson products but they are tank tough and should give you years of good service.

+1. I highly recommend a 357 revolver.

A shotgun or semi auto pistol would be nice and may be in your future. But for now a revolver would be easy for both of you to learn and operate.

Eventually your little one will be all over the house causing you to lock up your guns. Long guns are harder to lock up and access quickly. But a handgun in a pistol safe solves the problem.

Lot's of people recommend the shot gun and for good reason. But a lot of practice is needed to properly operate the shot gun under stress. The revolver much less so.

And not to start a fight (Sigma lovers give it a rest). I cannot recommend a gun with a 10 pound trigger pull for home defense.

Generations of Americans turned to the 357 for home defense. Nothing wrong with it at all.

Here are some good used revolvers to look for:

Smith 686 4"
Smith 19 4"
Ruger GP100
Ruger Security Six

Keep in mind that you can always load it with 38 +p.

 

[boingboing]

i really like the 4046 looks really nice and a decent price but is it california legal and what does DRT mean?

The best thing about Smith autos is that if you run out of ammo you can beat em' to death with it. I don't know if it's CA legal or not, you'd have to check your states DOJ web site. If they are you can pick up used ones for $350 on up. If you buy a used one, go to S&W's website and register it, then send it in and have them go over it and replace whatever needs to be replaced. If it's something covered by warranty shipping is free both ways. Because I'm a LEO, I shipped my 4046 back for night sight replacement under warranty and had the gun back on desk at work in 5 days.

 

[Frailer]

...And not to start a fight (Sigma lovers give it a rest). I cannot recommend a gun with a 10 pound trigger pull for home defense...

Here are some good used revolvers to look for:

Smith 686 4"
Smith 19 4"
Ruger GP100
Ruger Security Six
...

I'm not a semi-auto guy (Sigma or otherwise), but I don't follow your logic. How many DA revolvers have a <10 pound trigger pull?

 

[watchmanjimg]

I'm not a semi-auto guy (Sigma or otherwise), but I don't follow your logic. How many DA revolvers have a <10 pound trigger pull?

I think he was referring to certain autos with heavy trigger pulls, hence the concern over starting a fight with Sigma owners.

 

[cshoff]

I'm not a semi-auto guy (Sigma or otherwise), but I don't follow your logic. How many DA revolvers have a <10 pound trigger pull?

+1. I've got two Sigma's and the trigger pull on both is around 8.5 - 9 pounds. My Ruger GP100 also has a 9 pound pull, AFTER I installed the Wolf Combat Spring kit in it. The three Smith revolvers I have are all right at 9 - 10 pounds as well. When comparing the trigger pull on the Sigma to a typical DA revolver, it's really a non-issue, and when you use a DA revolver as a defensive weapon, it should ALWAYS be used in the DA mode.

 

[Old cop]

I'm with Flatpik6 re: a revolver vs. a semi-auto, especially with your wife in mind. Get a .38 J or K frame and look at the used market to save some money. I doubt you will find anything for $350, but should be able to find something for around $425. Also (and more importantly), S&W has a $50 rebate on all new J frames sold before December so if you find one for about $400 you're in the ballpark. Best of luck and good for you for taking the defense of your family seriously.

 

[GatorFarmer]

No. Buy a shotgun. Gun prices tend to be high in California and you're going to deal with that, plus gimped magazines for any current production.

350 will however get you a pump action 12 gauge, and most any of these will do. Since you can't get a carry permit in most of California anyway, there's little reason not to have a shoulder fired weapon.

Whether your partner can shoot someone or not is a matter of mindset and training. If anyone is squeamish, get a rabbit and a hammer and prepare your own dinner.

If you want a handgun under California rules, the least gimped thing that you can get is a 1911 of decent make or something like a Sig P220. You don't lose any mag capacity that way.

Sigmas are meant to take double stack mags holding more than 10 rds. Gimped California mags rather limit them.

 

[cshoff]

No. Buy a shotgun. Gun prices tend to be high in California and you're going to deal with that, plus gimped magazines for any current production.

350 will however get you a pump action 12 gauge, and most any of these will do. Since you can't get a carry permit in most of California anyway, there's little reason not to have a shoulder fired weapon.

Whether your partner can shoot someone or not is a matter of mindset and training. If anyone is squeamish, get a rabbit and a hammer and prepare your own dinner.

If you want a handgun under California rules, the least gimped thing that you can get is a 1911 of decent make or something like a Sig P220. You don't lose any mag capacity that way.

Sigmas are meant to take double stack mags holding more than 10 rds. Gimped California mags rather limit them.

Even with a "gimped" magazine, the Sigma will still have a greater ammunition capacity than any single stack 1911. And it will be nearly impossible to find a decent 1911, and definitely impossible to find a SIG P220, in the $350 neighborhood.

 

[writerinmo]

I prefer my SW40VE Sigma for my home defense, primarily BECAUSE of the heavier trigger pull. A light trigger pull might not give you that moment to realize it's your wife, or one of your teenagers sneaking in late before you exert that 2 or 3 pounds on it and make one hell of a mistake in the heat of the moment. Nope... I like my Sigma just fine, at least if it goes off, you know that I meant it too.

 

[jbourneidentity]

It's hard to find a good pistol at $350. If you could come up with another $100, you could have a S&W M&P 9mm or Glock 19, which are ideal for home protection and give you a high round count to hold the fort until police arrive.

Used S&W K frame revolvers in .38 can be found used and in good shape for around $350 if you prefer the wheelgun.

 

[infamous209]

It's hard to find a good pistol at $350. If you could come up with another $100, you could have a S&W M&P 9mm or Glock 19, which are ideal for home protection and give you a high round count to hold the fort until police arrive.

Used S&W K frame revolvers in .38 can be found used and in good shape for around $350 if you prefer the wheelgun.

This may sound really terroristic or really aggressive but if you make that mistake of entering my home and make me make a life or death decision i can promise you there will be no need for law enforcement just a coroner because i will shoot to kill. thanks to all for the help, im going to see what i can find at gun shows and at lgs in used firearms

 

[Rule 303]

I would highly suggest you look for and try to obtain a S&W Model 10 with a four inch bull barrel. Its a gun that your wife can shoot comfortably and it will not frighten her with flash and recoil if you're leaving it loaded with wad cutters or semi wad cutters. Once your wife gets comfortable with the gun and shooting it, you can step up the ammo to 158grn HPSWC +P, the old FBI Load.

I would not recommend starting your wife out with a shotgun.
With buck shot they are not pleasant to shoot and take some getting used to. Once your wife is comfortable with a pistol, maybe you'll have been able to save your money and you can buy a shotgun. If it's for you, I'd recommend a Remington 870 P. If you want one for your wife, get her a Youth Model 870 in 20 guage unless your wife is a large woman in stature.

I would highly recommend that you not start your wife out on a semi auto pistol unless you have lots of money for ammo and training and do, I repeat do stay away for small frame pistols.
I always laugh when a guy buys his wife or girlfriend a J frame .38 and loads it up with +P ammo and takes her to the range to teach her how to shoot. 25 rounds later you have a woman who doesn't like the gun and will not shoot it for a long time if ever.

This is just cheap advice, but if you can, if you're not an experienced shooter who can teach someone to shoot, find a friend who truly is a good instructor to teach your wife to shoot. Also make sure you and your wife know the legal and moral obligations of using deadly force.
Good luck how ever you decide.

Rule 303

 

[sipowicz]

i will shoot to kill. thanks to all for the help,

No...you shoot to stop....and you better remember that if you ever have to go to court.

 

[Pasifikawv]

No...you shoot to stop....and you better remember that if you ever have to go to court.

+1. Even if shot placement is perfect (center mass or between the eyes) it was a lucky shot. "I never intended to kill anyone. I just wanted to stop the threat."

Back to original topic: Don't totally give up on the idea of a shotgun for home defense. Many are CA legal and are in your price range.

 

[Will Carry]

The shotgun for home defense should be used as a bedroom defense weapon. It is not the weapon to walk through your home with nor is it the weapon you want to use in a phone booth. I would suggest a good revolver. Smith and Wesson make the best. Ruger is second. Then there's the rest. Charter Arms, Taurus, Rossi and EAA. If I had to choose between one of the lesser revolvers, I would choose.......a Rossi. But. There are a lot of good used Smith and Wesson and Rugers out there. An old model 10 would be better than a new Taurus. I would not buy a Sigma. I bought one a few years ago and gave it away to a friend to use as a range gun.

 

[alde]

It's pretty easy to find a 5906, 5903, 6946 etc. for around $300. You can add a CT laser grip to the 5906 or 5903 later as money permits.

 

[infamous209]

well of course it was a lucky shot i suck at shooting I like the idea of a smaller caliber less powerful handgun for my lady as she is 5 4 120 and currently preg. a shotgun is way too big for her to manuever in tight places and around corners and has too much kick for her to feel comfortable shooting

 

[Pasifikawv]

well of course it was a lucky shot i suck at shooting I like the idea of a smaller caliber less powerful handgun for my lady as she is 5 4 120 and currently preg. a shotgun is way too big for her to manuever in tight places and around corners and has too much kick for her to feel comfortable shooting

Errr... I meant even the best marksman should always indicate that he only shot to "stop the threat" and nothing more. I didn't intend to swipe at your skill. Poor wording on my part... Sorry about that...

If you want a semi-auto in your price range, take a look at the Bersa in .380. While the .380 is just below a good defense round IMO, it has the manageble recoil you are looking for- especially in a heavier piece like the Bersa. The Ruger LCP in .380, for example, is a hand-slapper with much felt recoil.

The Bersa certainly isn't top-o-the-line, but I have owned a few over the years and have found them to be very accurate and quite reliable. Decent quality for the price tag.

They do make a double stack "plus" model that holds 15 rnds, but that model isn't Commiefornia compliant.

It may be that the single stack fits your wife's hand a bit better anyway, although the standard mag holds only 7 rnds. (The deluxe mag holds 9, but I have had FTF issues with the 9 rnd mag whereas the standard 7 feeds flawlessly.)

The Bersa fits my wife's hands and the manageble recoil means it isn't uncomfortable to practice with at the range. Having something your wife feels comfortable with and is willing to practice with makes alot of sense.

That said, a fun "range gun" that the wife and I share is the ISSC M-22: a Glock knock off in 22lr. I can use it as a trainer rather than throwing expensive rounds down range, and the light recoil makes it a fun plinker. Several drawbacks to this as a defense gun: Single action only, ammo sensitive, and it's just a 22lr.

Requires a high velocity round with a bullet weight of at least 38 grain. CCI high velocity w/ 40 grain bullet works well as does Remington Thunderbolts in 40 grain. Nothing worse than getting in a pressure situation and having a failure due ammo sensitivity, forgetting to cock the hammer for that first shot, or failing to stop an attacker with an underpowered round.

Good luck with the search!

 

[infamous209]

Errr... I meant even the best marksman should always indicate that he only shot to "stop the threat" and nothing more. I didn't intend to swipe at your skill. Poor wording on my part... Sorry about that...

If you want a semi-auto in your price range, take a look at the Bersa in .380. While the .380 is just below a good defense round IMO, it has the manageble recoil you are looking for- especially in a heavier piece like the Bersa. The Ruger LCP in .380, for example, is a hand-slapper with much felt recoil.

The Bersa certainly isn't top-o-the-line, but I have owned a few over the years and have found them to be very accurate and quite reliable. Decent quality for the price tag.

They do make a double stack "plus" model that holds 15 rnds, but that model isn't Commiefornia compliant.

It may be that the single stack fits your wife's hand a bit better anyway, although the standard mag holds only 7 rnds. (The deluxe mag holds 9, but I have had FTF issues with the 9 rnd mag whereas the standard 7 feeds flawlessly.)

The Bersa fits my wife's hands and the manageble recoil means it isn't uncomfortable to practice with at the range. Having something your wife feels comfortable with and is willing to practice with makes alot of sense.

That said, a fun "range gun" that the wife and I share is the ISSC M-22: a Glock knock off in 22lr. I can use it as a trainer rather than throwing expensive rounds down range, and the light recoil makes it a fun plinker. Several drawbacks to this as a defense gun: Single action only, ammo sensitive, and it's just a 22lr.

Requires a high velocity round with a bullet weight of at least 38 grain. CCI high velocity w/ 40 grain bullet works well as does Remington Thunderbolts in 40 grain. Nothing worse than getting in a pressure situation and having a failure due ammo sensitivity, forgetting to cock the hammer for that first shot, or failing to stop an attacker with an underpowered round.

Good luck with the search!

I took absolutely no offense to this at all I know what you were talking about, I was looking at a Taurus 380 but not cali legal. probably going to try to stay with a 9 mm or 380

 

[11B Lifer]

What ever is comfortable

My wife tried out a number of pistols before deciding. She now has an old M36 filled with wad cutters. In the house she has options-My Colt Commander by the bed-Our M1903 Colts in a front closet. Although I have quite a few 12 and 20 gauge shotguns-I like having one of our double .410s with #5 shot around. We also have had our M36 .22s loaded up with HPs.
We have a little plan also-the dog stops them long enough for us to arm-then I cover while my wife gets out of the house-I get down low-we make a terrible racket-she calls the cops-we even have book cases that can be tipped while we're moving. My son recently loaned me his 5.7 FN-wicked-absolutely nasty. Little recoil-light-plenty of HS pellets.