Home defense - know your rights

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Hat:
People just like to make up stuff. My brother in law says you can't shoot anyone who isn't armed. Even in your house. He can never answer how you're going to know they're armed at 2am in the dark until they shot or stab you. But that doesn't stop him from believing.
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I would say that the answer depends on what state you live in.
In Texas, no duty to retreat, someone breaking in, can be shot
without regard to whether they are armed or not. But if you are so unfortunate to live in a State with a duty to retreat, or in a State where there is no castle doctrine, or else in one of the criminal santuaries cities where, only criminals can have guns, he might be right. The police will take a report after it is all over in that case.
 
Cshoff,

Your family members, or anyone else, with a safe room can have them as secure as they want. A safe room works well during storms. I have never heard of an entire family successfully using a safe room. Yes, a single individual can or even a couple that was already in the same room. I have a sprinkler system in my office. It is supposed to work in theory. It looks good, Will it work in practice? I cannot say for sure but it is better than nothing. A safe room is a feel good idea but I bet you have never known anyone to successfully use one during a home invasion. That safe room of yours would make a great place for someone to place your family while they burn your house down as happened with the dr mentioned in an earlier post.

A cell phone is a great thing to have since many burglars cut phone lines. My security alarm works off cellular notification so cutting phone service is not going to stop the police from being notified. Yet my alarm service is best for alerting me and possibly to scare away an intruder. It will still take several minutes for police response to take place.

The problem is all the planning in the world is based on everything going according to plan. If one thing goes wrong, the entire plan falls apart. There are many layers of protection that one can have. My community is gated (a real joke). I have outside lighting , front and rear, that is on all night and covers 70% of my yard. I have double deadbolt locks on each of the three exit doors. I have my garage door switched off at night. All my windows are double locked. Then I have my alarm system. Then my loud barking dog. If one makes it past all that, I have me.

Yet why would a burglar want to break in to my house other than to take gun safes that would require a lot of help? WHy would one want to break in while I am home? What are they going to get from me that my wife has not already taken?

Home invasions happen while one is gone with maybe only one or two people home. They take place when someone answers the door and then force that person back in the home. Doing so allows them time to go through the house without interruption.

Home invasions are more likely if one lives in a rural area, a drug area, a low income area, have a business where the proceeds are brought home daily or have something of great value that is known in the area. I doubt you know of a single incidence where a home of a friend or family member was raided while the family was home during night time hours.
 
Cshoff,

Your family members, or anyone else, with a safe room can have them as secure as they want. A safe room works well during storms. I have never heard of an entire family successfully using a safe room. Yes, a single individual can or even a couple that was already in the same room. I have a sprinkler system in my office. It is supposed to work in theory. It looks good, Will it work in practice? I cannot say for sure but it is better than nothing. A safe room is a feel good idea but I bet you have never known anyone to successfully use one during a home invasion. That safe room of yours would make a great place for someone to place your family while they burn your house down as happened with the dr mentioned in an earlier post.

Come on, you know that is just so much nonsense. A "safe room" isn't a "be all, end all" solution to a possible home invasion. It is simply one layer in (what should be) a multi-layered security approach. Clearly if a family was locked in a "safe room" and the house was set on fire, they would need to retreat out one of the windows. Likewise, if an intruder actually attempted to enter the house through one of the windows in the "safe room", then that room would no longer be considered "safe".

A "safe room", as is used by my younger brother and his family, is simply an effective way for he and his wife to make sure that their son is kept safe in the event of a home invasion. They can literally walk out of their bedroom door, take two steps across the hall, and be in his room in less than a second. Alternatively, if conditions dictate they do something different, then they have several contingency plans in place to deal with them. In each case, however, their son is their priority and his safety is their primary concern.

Nobody here is suggesting that a "safe room" must be used at all costs, only that it is a viable option under certain circumstances. Your suggestion that everyone just sit back and relax, on the other hand, and wait for the "bad guy" to find you, is NOT viable for most people who have kids in the house. You're going to be hard pressed to find a 6 year old kid who will have the ability to hide quietly in his/her room while a home invader is working his way through the house, no matter how much the kid has been drilled to do so. And if you think mom and dad aren't going to try to protect that child, you better guess again. It is much better for this family to have a plan in place, with contingencies in place also, before hand.

A cell phone is a great thing to have since many burglars cut phone lines. My security alarm works off cellular notification so cutting phone service is not going to stop the police from being notified. Yet my alarm service is best for alerting me and possibly to scare away an intruder. It will still take several minutes for police response to take place.

Absolutely.

The problem is all the planning in the world is based on everything going according to plan. If one thing goes wrong, the entire plan falls apart.

Here, again, I disagree. PROPER planning is based on exactly the opposite. It is based on everything going wrong and then having to respond to changing conditions on the fly. It is, as I mentioned above, about developing a response plan that contains contingencies for dealing with changing circumstances. It is exactly why comprehensive firearms training doesn't end with good marksmanship. It is exactly why self defense training encompasses avoidance and deescalation skills in addition to unarmed combatives and weapons skills.

There are many layers of protection that one can have. My community is gated (a real joke). I have outside lighting , front and rear, that is on all night and covers 70% of my yard. I have double deadbolt locks on each of the three exit doors. I have my garage door switched off at night. All my windows are double locked. Then I have my alarm system. Then my loud barking dog. If one makes it past all that, I have me.

Yet why would a burglar want to break in to my house other than to take gun safes that would require a lot of help? WHy would one want to break in while I am home? What are they going to get from me that my wife has not already taken?

Home invasions happen while one is gone with maybe only one or two people home. They take place when someone answers the door and then force that person back in the home. Doing so allows them time to go through the house without interruption.

Home invasions are more likely if one lives in a rural area, a drug area, a low income area, have a business where the proceeds are brought home daily or have something of great value that is known in the area. I doubt you know of a single incidence where a home of a friend or family member was raided while the family was home during night time hours.

Yet we can read about home invasions that took place while people were home in the newpapers around this country every day. The stories are on our nightly news. PROPER planning would dictate that we prepare for the worse case scenario - ie: a home invasion that takes place while we and our family are home. We can't count on it not happening and it would be naive of us to pretend it can't. Denial can get you killed.
 
Castile Doctrines have to be read very carefully to understand its total meaning.

When interpreting your state's Castile Doctrine a couple of significant errors people make is that the don't read the whole law. Many times the right to shoot is dependent on a couple of sentences. Also looking for the word "and" and "or" is particularly important because "and" usually means all the variables provided must be satisfied whereas "or" can mean any the reasons could satisfy, 2 or more reasons could satisfy, or all of the reasons could satisfy the reason to use deadly force. In other words the right to use deadly force could be dependent on additional variables.

Imagine taken that doctrine one step further and you have a small kid of 12 or an old confused lady of 70 has broken your window, gotten into your house, and is taking your possessions do you have the right to use lethal force on them under the Castile Doctrine? Will the Castile Doctrine protect you? You being a person 6'6" tall and are young and athletic.
 
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A lengthy exchange on the M&P forum has been closed. Ok ...what do YOU think your rights are if someone busts into your house in the middle of the night? Do you have to go screaming out the back door, leaving your teenage daughter inside?

You don't say where you are from so it's hard to answer as the answer will vary from state to state. Regardless, no you would not have to abandon you daughter (at least in most states)
 
Does anyone here actually know someone personally who was charged with a crime for shooting a burglar in their house who wasn't a family member?
 
In California I understand there is no duty to retreat.

However I think one needs to be willing to take a beat down before using lethal force.
 
Other things most people overlook.

1. Few home invasions take place when residents are home.

2. Most home invasions are done by those looking for one particular thing such as drugs or illegal cash.

As to being armed, many yrs ago we had a case where a well respected and liked man went to get his newspaper. Shots were fired and he was found dead in his driveway with the paper in his hand. Over 30 yrs later, there is not one single lead or clue that would allow solving the case. He was a gun collector but unarmed when shot. Was he targeted? We think so but no motive for his being so. What would have prevented this? Nothing. He likely never saw it coming. Most home invasions happen at a time that fives the crook the edge.
 
We have a really good Castle Law here.Any vehicle any building,your home,their home,any where you have the legal right to be,or in defense of other person.We dont have to run,hide,cry, beg for mercy, or try get away.So if you try to break in on me or the little old lady next door ,car jack me or the person next to me at the red light,call in advance and pick your favorite caliber:D
 
Florida is pretty solid when it comes to personal defense & the Castle Doctrine, so I'm pretty comfortable with my home & my car. I need to research what I can do on my property outside of the house. This past Monday evening the car alarm/horn on my truck went off at around 3am. It parks in the rear of a 1/2 acre lot. I investigated with my Kimber and a combat style flashlight. Didn't find anything. I don't want to shoot anyone, especially a kid, just for being on my property at night; not even for stealing a vehicle. I'm just not sure how to handle the different scenarios that could arrise from a situation like that. I do carry a business card for an attorney who specializes in defensive shooting cases in my wallet with my CCW. Good discussion & much knowledge here. - jerry
 
Agree with you 100%. There's a poster who seriously thinks there's a duty to retreat inside your own home. The moderator closed the thread so i brought it here.
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I may be wrong (and this does not mean I agree) but there are some states that have a law requiring retreat even if in ones own home. I am not positive but I think it may be Massachusettes, perhaps New Jersey or maybe even New York. I think these retreat laws are ridiculous but then again some states are ridiculous
 
Home invasions happen while one is gone with maybe only one or two people home. They take place when someone answers the door and then force that person back in the home. Doing so allows them time to go through the house without interruption.

Home invasions are more likely if one lives in a rural area, a drug area, a low income area, have a business where the proceeds are brought home daily or have something of great value that is known in the area. I doubt you know of a single incidence where a home of a friend or family member was raided while the family was home during night time hours.
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I hink that will depend a lot on where you live.

As for me, I have posted before in more detail the story of the old man who lived one mile from me in a very rural and peacefull area who was shot while sleeping (almost deaf) in a home invasion.

That was years ago.

As for the real world as it exists today, here in the Piedmont North Carolina, home invasions are suddenly becoming an everyday thing. Some are dope related. Lots of them are not.

Also it varies from town to town. A much smaller town only 25 miles or so from much larger towns is having a crime spree with home invasions, robberies and day time stick ups every single day, sometimes multiples on the same day.

So it can happen anywhere, but there are some places where it is much more likely than others.
 
This is all quite scary... I live not 60 miles from a major city, and about 23 miles from a big city. We never used to lock our cars or doors, but now I see actual graffiti and have heard of break ins... I run a business from home and keep cash and guns in a (stupid of me, not thinking) safe in my garage. I have had various people comment on seeing a large safe sitting in my garage, from delivery people to casual acquaintances. I wasn't thinking about people noticing it, I just didn't want to drag a ginormous safe into my house!

Now I worry that my home could be a potential target. Dark area, lake front, neighbors far away... I'm thinking of getting a security system. We did get a dog, but she's young and seems to sleep through anything.
 
Are there any here old enough to remember the plight of Harold Fish in AZ? Everything about his shooting a perp was within the law but he spent three yrs in prison before being released.

His conviction was based largely on using a gun more powerful that that of police, using expanding bullets that were made to kill and not retreating.

Might ought to put that into mind.
 
If I remember right, Fish had all kinds of stuff going on besides the 10mm, not least of which was running his mouth to police without an attorney.
 
I spend quite a bit of time in Minnesota, although I live primarily in a "castle doctrine" state. When it's 25 degrees below zero (or even when it's in the teens), I'm not going to attempt a retreat to the outside, as the forces of nature can be lethal :-)

Here in the desert southwest, there's a large rattlesnake roaming my yard (really) so retreat is also out of the question. Besides, AZ is a castle doctrine state.

With family around, I fear for them more than I fear for my own safety. If groups or individuals are aggressive enough to do a home invasion while security alarms are blaring, it's reasonable to conclude that they won't leave any witnesses. Even very young children are potential witnesses that can eventually identify the perpetrators. If your loved ones are at risk, would you just raise your arms and tell the criminals to "take whatever they want" and hope that it just remains a property crime?

I am Thankful that I live in Texas, a State with no duty to retreat, whether it is outside or inside my home. If inside my home, they will not get in without me knowing it, and I stay prepared at all times. I have no security alarm, no dogs to warn me, but nobody can get in without waking me and I think my three handguns are more than adequate to stop them at the entry point. Outside my home I care for a disabled family member and I have no duty to retreat anyway. I would never move to any State where the laws are otherwise. No I will not tell them take whatever you want, and rely upon their good will to let me go. If they try my vehicle I might if nobody was in it. But with a disabled family member any attempt at the vehicle,and I will be drawing and using my handguns. I may have to live around criminals because they seem to be recycled but I do not have to be a victim.
 
If I remember right, Fish had all kinds of stuff going on besides the 10mm, not least of which was running his mouth to police without an attorney.

Not sure about that but what I have read of the case, it boiled down to an agressive, anti gun DA bringing up things like he used JHP rounds in a gun larger than that of any police agency and having the ability to walk away but did not. The DA was in an enviable position of Mr Fish having to prove his innocence rather than the State having to prove his guilt.

Most things said before getting an attorney can be suppressed and I have not seen where his attorney was concerned with suppression of evidence.

Having a good CRIMINAL DEFENSE attorney is always a good idea before talking to police. Not all attorneys are criminal defense attorneys. But all good criminal defense attorneys are expensive. I am working a case right now where the initial retainer by the attorney was $50K. But we can assume some atty will be willing to assist you initially after a shooting for maybe $5K. How many will have $5K laying around?
 
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