Laws are made by men. There are good men and bad ones, good laws and bad. Among the most basic of rights is the right to life. My yard is fenced and the gates kept locked. My doors are also kept locked...no one is going to just 'wander in'...especially not in the wee hours of the morning, etc. Anyone who comes crashing in uninvited is likely to not only get to see the business end of one or another heavy caliber firearms I keep loaded and close at hand. but unless they fall flat and surrender PDQ without being asked, they are going to see what comes out of it. Castle Doctrine or not.
Home defense - know your rights
- Thread starter gld1203
- Start date
People just like to make up stuff. My brother in law says you can't shoot anyone who isn't armed. Even in your house. He can never answer how you're going to know they're armed at 2am in the dark until they shot or stab you. But that doesn't stop him from believing.
Bombsaway
Member
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2011
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Not in Tennessee I don't. We have the Castle Doctrine here. I told my wife that if ANYONE enters my home uninvited, especially in the dark of night, it's the last thing they will every do.
Same goes for someone who tries to carjack me. Castle Doctrine extends to my vehicle as well.
Same goes for someone who tries to carjack me. Castle Doctrine extends to my vehicle as well.
This is hilarious! I'm sure it is safe to assume you were part of the discussion that was shut down. You are saying the OP's topic is irrelevant and are attempting to take over the disscusion!!....just hilarious!!
southflorida-law
Member
In Florida any unauthorized entry into your home is considered a threat and no retreat is necessary. Also in FL, we have the "stand your ground" law, so you don’t have any duty to retreat in any emergency.
Of course, the gray area will always be was "deadly force" warranted. But in the home you are pretty safe, in Florida.
Do a search of your local/state laws for “justifiable use of deadly force”. Should cover everything.
If you are going to carry a loaded gun either know the law or know a good attorney (before you attempt to carry it)
Of course, the gray area will always be was "deadly force" warranted. But in the home you are pretty safe, in Florida.
Do a search of your local/state laws for “justifiable use of deadly force”. Should cover everything.
If you are going to carry a loaded gun either know the law or know a good attorney (before you attempt to carry it)
Hey if some dude thinks he has to retreat/leave his home in case of a break-in, it doesn't matter to me whether he does or not. It isn't my choice (or yours) it's his. "Fashionable persistent attitudes" of others is neither my business (nor yours) it's the business of that person and no one else.
"Irked" by what other people think? Now that's hilarious. And also, none of your business (nor mine).
Out.
"Irked" by what other people think? Now that's hilarious. And also, none of your business (nor mine).
Out.
Question: Would you be willing to have a family member or yourself die over state law?
Many years ago, being a newly wed and on a trip through Anniston, AL, we stopped at a motel for two nights. About 2am, we were awaken with someone breaking in to our room. I am not talking about coming through the door but breaking the night chain and entering. It took the guy two kicks to get in.
I did not even think about or know what state law was. My wife was pushed to the floor on the far side of the bed and I was on my knees with a .357 mag (model 66) pointed at the man's chest. He was ordered to stay right where he was and not move either direction. Had he moved, I would have shot. I may have gotten into a heap of trouble but that was the least of my worries. Within minutes, but seemed like hours, the police arrived and the man began to resist but it was their problem. All they asked me was what our names were, if we knew the man and why we were in town.
Everyone violates laws, depending on the circumstances. A few weeks ago, I drove at speeds approaching 100 MPH to get a person with large cut to the hospital. She was on blood thinners and had cut an artery and was 15 miles from the nearest hospital. It was not the time to worry about speed laws. Self defense is much the same. You do what you have to and accept the consequences.
Many years ago, being a newly wed and on a trip through Anniston, AL, we stopped at a motel for two nights. About 2am, we were awaken with someone breaking in to our room. I am not talking about coming through the door but breaking the night chain and entering. It took the guy two kicks to get in.
I did not even think about or know what state law was. My wife was pushed to the floor on the far side of the bed and I was on my knees with a .357 mag (model 66) pointed at the man's chest. He was ordered to stay right where he was and not move either direction. Had he moved, I would have shot. I may have gotten into a heap of trouble but that was the least of my worries. Within minutes, but seemed like hours, the police arrived and the man began to resist but it was their problem. All they asked me was what our names were, if we knew the man and why we were in town.
Everyone violates laws, depending on the circumstances. A few weeks ago, I drove at speeds approaching 100 MPH to get a person with large cut to the hospital. She was on blood thinners and had cut an artery and was 15 miles from the nearest hospital. It was not the time to worry about speed laws. Self defense is much the same. You do what you have to and accept the consequences.
Black_Sheep
Member
I found the 1998 Carouthers case summary No.C8-98-86, if anything it refutes your insistance that there is no duty to retreat.
The bulk of last summers CCW renewal class focused on the legal aspects of using a firearm for self defense, including the obligation to retreat if possible. I don't agree with the concept but it is what it is. Further research indicates that The Defense of Dwelling and Person Act of 2011 never made it to the Governors desk...
Senate leadership kills Stand Your Ground « MN-GOCRA
Stu1205
Member
The Safest Procedure
In Florida we have the castle doctrine too. You do not have to reteat in your house, and it also extends to the street.
However, here is the safest way to proceed. This is what I teach in my home safety course.
First, have a safe room with a solid core door and a dead bolt.
Make sure your gun is in there along with a cell phone.
If you have young children, make it one of their rooms but do not have the gun in there.
If someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night, get everybody into the safe room if possible and lock the door.
Call 911 on your cell phone and tell the police what happened, what room you are in, and that you have a firearm.
Tell them that you will defend your family if anybody breaks into the room. Never say shoot or kill, say defend.
Tell them you are going to stay on the line so that they can hear exactly what is going on.
This way if you do use deadly force, they will have it on tape that it was justified.
Also tell them to have the police identify themselves to you once they clear the house.
If someone tries to gain access to your safe room, tell them that you are armed and that you will defend yourself.
It is easier to defend a 36" opening than to search through your house and shoot somebody or get shot yourself.
Remember, there is nothing that you own that is worth getting shot over or taking anothers life.
I am an excellent shot, and would not hesitate to use my gun for self defense if need be, but only as a last resort.
Stay safe.
Stu
In Florida we have the castle doctrine too. You do not have to reteat in your house, and it also extends to the street.
However, here is the safest way to proceed. This is what I teach in my home safety course.
First, have a safe room with a solid core door and a dead bolt.
Make sure your gun is in there along with a cell phone.
If you have young children, make it one of their rooms but do not have the gun in there.
If someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night, get everybody into the safe room if possible and lock the door.
Call 911 on your cell phone and tell the police what happened, what room you are in, and that you have a firearm.
Tell them that you will defend your family if anybody breaks into the room. Never say shoot or kill, say defend.
Tell them you are going to stay on the line so that they can hear exactly what is going on.
This way if you do use deadly force, they will have it on tape that it was justified.
Also tell them to have the police identify themselves to you once they clear the house.
If someone tries to gain access to your safe room, tell them that you are armed and that you will defend yourself.
It is easier to defend a 36" opening than to search through your house and shoot somebody or get shot yourself.
Remember, there is nothing that you own that is worth getting shot over or taking anothers life.
I am an excellent shot, and would not hesitate to use my gun for self defense if need be, but only as a last resort.
Stay safe.
Stu
Every gun owner who has a gun for self defense should know the Legal and Moral Aspects of using that gun for Self Defense.
And they should really really know the "Magic Words" to tell the nice LE Officers.
Rule 303
And they should really really know the "Magic Words" to tell the nice LE Officers.
Rule 303
Mr Stu, your plans might work in a perfect world. Unfortunately we do not live in such a place.
By the time you find an intruder in your house, they have the edge on you. It is way too late to get your family in a safe room. Their eyes are adjusted to the darkness, yours is not. Your best advantage is knowing the layout of your home. Remaining still and silent is to your benefit.
Since most homes have the kids room being remote from the master, getting there is going to be dangerous.
You do not know what type arms the intruder has. Most of the time you do not know where in the house he is. A local man named Dolce many years ago came home with his wife from their restaurant. His wife was astute enough to see something out of place as they walked in and screamed. He shoved her out the door to call police (before cell phones) and she ran next door. He pulled the gun he carried, as near as can be determined, about the same time a perp came from behind a couch. Two others came from other areas in the house. He left one dead in the house, another found a short distance away from the house and a third got away. Mr Dolce sustained fatal wounds. This was with the lights on.
I have gone into many darkend homes and businesses in years past. Sometimes I still get to do so by request. It is best using two people to sweep rooms. In reality, it is best for the homeowner to remain where he is and just make certain of his target. A perp is not interested in your family, they only want money, drugs or goods that can be converted into cash.
Fortunately the odds are on your side in that you will never be broken in on. I certainly hope you are not because moving about your home with an intruder inside can be fatal to you.
By the time you find an intruder in your house, they have the edge on you. It is way too late to get your family in a safe room. Their eyes are adjusted to the darkness, yours is not. Your best advantage is knowing the layout of your home. Remaining still and silent is to your benefit.
Since most homes have the kids room being remote from the master, getting there is going to be dangerous.
You do not know what type arms the intruder has. Most of the time you do not know where in the house he is. A local man named Dolce many years ago came home with his wife from their restaurant. His wife was astute enough to see something out of place as they walked in and screamed. He shoved her out the door to call police (before cell phones) and she ran next door. He pulled the gun he carried, as near as can be determined, about the same time a perp came from behind a couch. Two others came from other areas in the house. He left one dead in the house, another found a short distance away from the house and a third got away. Mr Dolce sustained fatal wounds. This was with the lights on.
I have gone into many darkend homes and businesses in years past. Sometimes I still get to do so by request. It is best using two people to sweep rooms. In reality, it is best for the homeowner to remain where he is and just make certain of his target. A perp is not interested in your family, they only want money, drugs or goods that can be converted into cash.
Fortunately the odds are on your side in that you will never be broken in on. I certainly hope you are not because moving about your home with an intruder inside can be fatal to you.
cshoff
Member
Unfortunately, that isn't really an option for a "mom" or "dad" who has kids in the house he/she has to look out for. Parental instinct is to GO TO THOSE KIDS AND MAKE SURE THEY ARE SAFE RIGHT NOW! And you can't train that instinct out of mom and dad. For these folks, having a response plan in place that has been rehearsed ahead of time, is their best option.
I would say in most cases, that would be correct. The intruder is usually looking for some kind of easy-to-grab contraband that can be used/sold to purchase drugs. With that said, it's certainly not a given and it's certainly not something you can count on. When a person unlawfully enters your occupied home, you MUST assume that this person intends to cause you/your family severe bodily harm or death. Period. Negotiating with this person or leaving your kids at the other end of the house to fend for themselves is NOT an option.
Absolutely. And that applies no matter who you are and no matter how well trained you are.
mc5aw
Member
Exactly how many average people (those who have not been trained or experienced high pressure/high duress scenarios like military or LEO) will have the 1) presence of mind to mentally review their respective state laws when confronted by a home intruder; 2) act exclusively based upon that immediate mental review of their respective state laws?
I say none. You prepare and train for the worst possible situation, but can never accurately predict how you will react if that worst possible scenario becomes a reality. The time it takes to consider "Does my state allow me to defend myself with deadly force against that individual who is now robbing my home in the middle of the night/threatening me and my family/coming at my from the dark with an object raised above his head?" can mean the difference between a happy or tragic ending for you. He who hesitates is lost.
I say none. You prepare and train for the worst possible situation, but can never accurately predict how you will react if that worst possible scenario becomes a reality. The time it takes to consider "Does my state allow me to defend myself with deadly force against that individual who is now robbing my home in the middle of the night/threatening me and my family/coming at my from the dark with an object raised above his head?" can mean the difference between a happy or tragic ending for you. He who hesitates is lost.
Don't like it? Tough. Guys like you just can't wait to throw in their worthless two cents and start a fight.
Pretty weak attempt at getting another thread locked.
Cshoff, of course what you say is true but not practical. By moving about, you run a major risk of alerting to your position and that of your children. Have you ever tried to move sleeping young kids in a hurry? It takes motion and sounds. Both of which is not beneficial to your well being. Once you have been made, it is more likely you, the wife and kids will become hostages. This has taken place many times over the years in many states. A dr and his daughters were taken hostage some time ago. It made national news. The wife was sent to a bank to withdraw a lot of money for the two intruders. That done, and she notified police, she gave them what they wanted and they still killed everyone in the family but the doctor. It is far better to remain silent and wait for the fight to come to you. Then the element of suprise is on your side.
Restraint should be practiced in many ways.
Restraint should be practiced in many ways.
cshoff
Member
I disagree. A "safe room", as was talked about by Stu in his earlier reply, is only one layer in (what should be) a multi-layered approach to home defense. An established and practiced response plan for securing that "safe room" in the event of a security breach, is absolutely practical, provided that it is being done as a part of a larger overall home defense plan.
On the other hand, a one-dimensional home defense plan isn't really a plan at all. If a person believes he/she and his/her family will be able to quickly and efficiently respond to a home invasion at the spur of the moment, without any previous preparation or planning, he/she is kidding themselves.
My younger brother and his wife use a "safe room" as a part of their home defense strategy. They also have an established and rehearsed protocol in place for getting there. As it turns out, the "safe room" is actually their 6 year old son's bedroom which is directly across the hall from their bedroom - very quick and easy to get to. Combined with the motion sensing lighting on the exterior of the house, entry alarms on all doors and windows, two watchful dogs in the house, as well as a monitored security system, it's an effective and realistic way for them to deal with a potential home invasion. They can leave the two dogs to fend for themselves while they hunker down with their son in his bedroom behind a locked security door, guns in hand, and police dispatch on the phone.
Mistakes can always lead to unintended consequences. The idea is that proper planning and proper training can help to minimize the potential that those mistakes will be made in the first place.
Oldman, Cshoff, I think your both right to a point.
My point in every one of these home defense discussions is TIME. Time react and put yourself in situation to be proactive. To be proactive instead of reactive may save a life.
Whether it's time to gather the kids and move to a safe room, grab a gun, seek cover, call police etc......
Time is everything. It's why we are trained to MOVE AND SHOOT on the street. It's no different in the home. By giving yourself some time to better prepare yourself for a fight.
Given enough time, the need to hurry and scurry about the house becomes unneccessary. Time and a plan will put you in a better position to win.
As a professional locksmith I have helped people secure their homes for the past 20 years. Most people think that we stand around and cut a few keys or open an occasional car. If they only knew. I even made a key to the trunk of a guys car. Little did I know there was a dead body inside. I didn't find out until the local police called me in for questioning months later after they caught the guy. The customer insisted that once I made the key, I was NOT to open the trunk. If I did I probably wouldn't be here now.
Many people I help have been robbed, burgled, invaded, and sometimes worse. Every single one of them was not prepared.
The last customer I helped was an older couple in a middle class neighborhood. The burglar broke in through a service door under their house which was built on a hill side. Once inside he waited until they went to sleep. He then cut a hole through the drywall and went inside the house.
He then sat on the couch for a while to make sure they were asleep. Then he stole what he could carry.
The couple heard the front door open and close and knew there was someone inside. They stayed in the bedroom and called police.
Once the cops arrived they sent in a dog. The dog tracked the burglars sent throughout the house. Turns out the burglar even entered their bedroom and walked around both sides of the bed.
The burglar stole some valuables and made of with their car including house keys.
The couple didn't sleep well for weeks after that.
The moral? Prepare well. Look at your home at all angles. Think like a theif. I tell my customers to do whatever will help them sleep at night.
My house? My one and only weekness is someone following a family member inside. But fortunately, I can see who comes and goes well before they reach the front door.
I have the strongest deadbolts made. The strongest strike plates. And strong steel doors. All PROPERLY installed. All the glass is protected by a laminate film. They only way in without a key is to drive right through the front door.
So, if someone tries to get in, whether we are awake or asleep, we will hear them. And we will have plenty of time to be proactive.
Both my wife and I grab our glasses
, gun and flashlight. Then we call for help. She goes to her fathers room right next to ours and I cover the hallway. She only shoots if I'm down and someone enters the hallway.
Sorry for the long read. But I believe home defense starts at the perimeter and then inwards ending with firearms.
My point in every one of these home defense discussions is TIME. Time react and put yourself in situation to be proactive. To be proactive instead of reactive may save a life.
Whether it's time to gather the kids and move to a safe room, grab a gun, seek cover, call police etc......
Time is everything. It's why we are trained to MOVE AND SHOOT on the street. It's no different in the home. By giving yourself some time to better prepare yourself for a fight.
Given enough time, the need to hurry and scurry about the house becomes unneccessary. Time and a plan will put you in a better position to win.
As a professional locksmith I have helped people secure their homes for the past 20 years. Most people think that we stand around and cut a few keys or open an occasional car. If they only knew. I even made a key to the trunk of a guys car. Little did I know there was a dead body inside. I didn't find out until the local police called me in for questioning months later after they caught the guy. The customer insisted that once I made the key, I was NOT to open the trunk. If I did I probably wouldn't be here now.
Many people I help have been robbed, burgled, invaded, and sometimes worse. Every single one of them was not prepared.
The last customer I helped was an older couple in a middle class neighborhood. The burglar broke in through a service door under their house which was built on a hill side. Once inside he waited until they went to sleep. He then cut a hole through the drywall and went inside the house.
He then sat on the couch for a while to make sure they were asleep. Then he stole what he could carry.
The couple heard the front door open and close and knew there was someone inside. They stayed in the bedroom and called police.
Once the cops arrived they sent in a dog. The dog tracked the burglars sent throughout the house. Turns out the burglar even entered their bedroom and walked around both sides of the bed.
The burglar stole some valuables and made of with their car including house keys.
The couple didn't sleep well for weeks after that.
The moral? Prepare well. Look at your home at all angles. Think like a theif. I tell my customers to do whatever will help them sleep at night.
My house? My one and only weekness is someone following a family member inside. But fortunately, I can see who comes and goes well before they reach the front door.
I have the strongest deadbolts made. The strongest strike plates. And strong steel doors. All PROPERLY installed. All the glass is protected by a laminate film. They only way in without a key is to drive right through the front door.
So, if someone tries to get in, whether we are awake or asleep, we will hear them. And we will have plenty of time to be proactive.
Both my wife and I grab our glasses
, gun and flashlight. Then we call for help. She goes to her fathers room right next to ours and I cover the hallway. She only shoots if I'm down and someone enters the hallway. Sorry for the long read. But I believe home defense starts at the perimeter and then inwards ending with firearms.
TexasArmed
Member
GLD:
Every time I read post on subjects like this one, I am thankful that I live in Texas and we have no duty to retreat from a criminal anywhere, especially in the home. Additionally, someone breaking into a home. Tennessee used to have a duty to retreat. Unlike some on these forums, I do not use an animal, nor an alarm system but nobody can get into my home without me knowing it if I am home. At home I am always armed with a CA Bulldog 44 Spl and even in the bathroom I carry my air weight stainless steel S&W 38 Spl, so if someone gets in, they will be met with gunfire. I do not warn anyone but would simply wait for them to get into my line of fire. I made it a point to read the Texas statutes in the Castle Doctrine when I moved to Texas. People may think I am strange because I come to the door armed and ready because I live in a neighborhood that was and still is considered dangerous.
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Every time I read post on subjects like this one, I am thankful that I live in Texas and we have no duty to retreat from a criminal anywhere, especially in the home. Additionally, someone breaking into a home. Tennessee used to have a duty to retreat. Unlike some on these forums, I do not use an animal, nor an alarm system but nobody can get into my home without me knowing it if I am home. At home I am always armed with a CA Bulldog 44 Spl and even in the bathroom I carry my air weight stainless steel S&W 38 Spl, so if someone gets in, they will be met with gunfire. I do not warn anyone but would simply wait for them to get into my line of fire. I made it a point to read the Texas statutes in the Castle Doctrine when I moved to Texas. People may think I am strange because I come to the door armed and ready because I live in a neighborhood that was and still is considered dangerous.
LennyLames
Member
I spend quite a bit of time in Minnesota, although I live primarily in a "castle doctrine" state. When it's 25 degrees below zero (or even when it's in the teens), I'm not going to attempt a retreat to the outside, as the forces of nature can be lethal
Here in the desert southwest, there's a large rattlesnake roaming my yard (really) so retreat is also out of the question. Besides, AZ is a castle doctrine state.
With family around, I fear for them more than I fear for my own safety. If groups or individuals are aggressive enough to do a home invasion while security alarms are blaring, it's reasonable to conclude that they won't leave any witnesses. Even very young children are potential witnesses that can eventually identify the perpetrators. If your loved ones are at risk, would you just raise your arms and tell the criminals to "take whatever they want" and hope that it just remains a property crime?
