My point being the exact topic of this thread, "Are we drawing our guns too soon". In my thread, with no visible lethal threat in my "opponents" hands, why would I restrict mine when I can use them to defend myself from a punch? As others have already said, I would pull my weapon as a last resort or if I have a clear picture of a lethal weapon in my opponents hands. I would always prefer not to let a stranger get too close to me, however, who can say that isn't 100% unavoidable? I'm just saying, I'm not going to reach into my pants pocket when some guy off the street starts hounding me for spare change. I will maintain my spacing, keep facing him, check his hands and scan my surroundings for his buddies.
Are we drawing are guns too soon?
- Thread starter sirrduke2010
- Start date
My point being the exact topic of this thread, "Are we drawing our guns too soon". In my thread, with no visible lethal threat in my "opponents" hands, why would I restrict mine when I can use them to defend myself from a punch? As others have already said, I would pull my weapon as a last resort or if I have a clear picture of a lethal weapon in my opponents hands. I would always prefer not to let a stranger get too close to me, however, who can say that isn't 100% unavoidable? I'm just saying, I'm not going to reach into my pants pocket when some guy off the street starts hounding me for spare change. I will maintain my spacing, keep facing him, check his hands and scan my surroundings for his buddies.
First off, the op's what ifs seem really out there. But that said, I think not so much it terms of what's legal, but what's right. I am not a policemen and I don't plan to be. I don't carry to right wrongs and catch bad guys. I carry so that I have the tools needed to survive a life threatning event, or to protect the life of innocents around me.
If I seriously believe I or someone near me is about to die, I'm going to draw and fire. Not draw and threaten, but fire. Any situation that does not meet the threshold to justify lethal force also does not justify assault by pointing a loaded weapon at someone.
Here's an example of what I mean. Someone tries to carjack me. I don't belive they are trying to kill me, they just want my car. I hand him the keys and call the police when I'm safe. The carjacker never even knows I'm carrying. In some states I have the legal right to draw my gun to protect my car. But tell that to my kids after I dead because the carjacker had a .38 in his hoodie pocket that I forced him to use as I tried to draw.
The same carjacker tries the same but my 4 kids are in the car. Now I'm in full attack mode. Not, I'm going to pull this gun and point it at you and see if you shoot me or run away mode. Hopefully, in the instant before he forces me to take his life, he runs. Great. Hopefully he does not have the previously mentioned snub in his pocket, but regardless the right thing to do in that situation it to fight. I would react this way even if I was in downtown san Francisco and I knew I was going to jail for it. Jail or not, my kids are safe. (or I'm dead
)
I plan to do what's right, and worry about legal after.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
If I seriously believe I or someone near me is about to die, I'm going to draw and fire. Not draw and threaten, but fire. Any situation that does not meet the threshold to justify lethal force also does not justify assault by pointing a loaded weapon at someone.
Here's an example of what I mean. Someone tries to carjack me. I don't belive they are trying to kill me, they just want my car. I hand him the keys and call the police when I'm safe. The carjacker never even knows I'm carrying. In some states I have the legal right to draw my gun to protect my car. But tell that to my kids after I dead because the carjacker had a .38 in his hoodie pocket that I forced him to use as I tried to draw.
The same carjacker tries the same but my 4 kids are in the car. Now I'm in full attack mode. Not, I'm going to pull this gun and point it at you and see if you shoot me or run away mode. Hopefully, in the instant before he forces me to take his life, he runs. Great. Hopefully he does not have the previously mentioned snub in his pocket, but regardless the right thing to do in that situation it to fight. I would react this way even if I was in downtown san Francisco and I knew I was going to jail for it. Jail or not, my kids are safe. (or I'm dead
)I plan to do what's right, and worry about legal after.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
Last edited:
Let me put this out here for consideration. Not saying right or wrong but here is the deal.
You see thugs coming at you and they are not wanting a ride to church. You pull your gun and they take off. You get in your car and leave.
They use their cell phones to say you waved a gun at them and give your car description.
A police officer pulls you over, miles away from the original location. He finds you have a gun. He knows there was an informal complaint made by a concerned citizen. He was not there during the confrontation but now has probable cause to charge you.
The next time the thugs see you they know you will not be carrying.
Pulling a gun can work against you as much as it works for you and it can get your permit pulled.
Just saying.
You see thugs coming at you and they are not wanting a ride to church. You pull your gun and they take off. You get in your car and leave.
They use their cell phones to say you waved a gun at them and give your car description.
A police officer pulls you over, miles away from the original location. He finds you have a gun. He knows there was an informal complaint made by a concerned citizen. He was not there during the confrontation but now has probable cause to charge you.
The next time the thugs see you they know you will not be carrying.
Pulling a gun can work against you as much as it works for you and it can get your permit pulled.
Just saying.
cmort666
Member
Sorry, you're treating strongarm robbery as a "property" crime and that's just plain wrong.
Strongarm robbery is a crime against a PERSON, the one being robbed. It's the threat of physical harm to forcibly take something from another person to which the taker is not lawfully entitled. If you didn't think the person was willing to harm you, why comply AT ALL? Just laugh in his face and go about your business.
Once somebody credibly threatens me with immediate great bodily harm or death, I have no reason to believe that they won't do it, REGARDLESS of what I do. What, am I suppose to take their word for it?
Once the knife or gun comes out, you've jumped off the cliff. I owe you NOTHING except the application of overwhelming force and violence to render you no longer a threat to me or somebody I'm entitled to protect.
Carjacking isn't some kind of involuntary physiological process. You have to WANT to do it. You had also better be willing to risk getting shot to carry it off.
Last edited:
cwo4uscgret
US Veteran
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2008
- Messages
- 491
- Reaction score
- 1,235
violent crime...
Carjackings are one of the most violent crimes being committed today. A carjacker is not going to wait until you are inside paying for your gas - they are going to attack you violently; at a gas station while you are pumping gas, or at a red light and they violently yank you out of the car.
On duty or off duty I have an obligation to know when (I) to utilize deadly force. Drawing a firearm does not equal shooting to stop the threat. I have had to draw my duty firearm at least 1/2 dozen times over the last 8 years but have never had to discharge it.
Avoiding the situation, while not always practical, is the best situation; when unavoidable however being aware of a danger and ready to defend yourself takes training and a proper mindset.
Carjackings are one of the most violent crimes being committed today. A carjacker is not going to wait until you are inside paying for your gas - they are going to attack you violently; at a gas station while you are pumping gas, or at a red light and they violently yank you out of the car.
On duty or off duty I have an obligation to know when (I) to utilize deadly force. Drawing a firearm does not equal shooting to stop the threat. I have had to draw my duty firearm at least 1/2 dozen times over the last 8 years but have never had to discharge it.
Avoiding the situation, while not always practical, is the best situation; when unavoidable however being aware of a danger and ready to defend yourself takes training and a proper mindset.
what if's, here we go
not all but most attack's will happen when there are few people around.
so here we go, you are walking down a dark street and lets say two big guys are following you. you do what you have been trained to do. you cross the street, they follow, you KNOW they are up to no good and things start to get your mind racing. there is no way out. you have now made your mind up that its time to do something about this situation and do it now. they have started to yell for you to slow down " we only want to ask you a question" they pick up their pace as you are getting to a well lite area with more people around and they know their chance to do you harm is coming to an end. you pull your weapon and are fully ready to use it. this is when they break off and go somewhere else to look for a new target. How many true criminals do you thing are going to go call the cops on you. they are more then likely wanted and if not most simply do not like the police. this is not the time to be saying "BETTER LATE THEN NEVER"
I know some are going to say you should have run to the well lite area with more people, and thats the problem with what if's, I am saying this for some reason or another is not an option.
Theres my "what if" and my two cents on the topic
Cracker
not all but most attack's will happen when there are few people around.
so here we go, you are walking down a dark street and lets say two big guys are following you. you do what you have been trained to do. you cross the street, they follow, you KNOW they are up to no good and things start to get your mind racing. there is no way out. you have now made your mind up that its time to do something about this situation and do it now. they have started to yell for you to slow down " we only want to ask you a question" they pick up their pace as you are getting to a well lite area with more people around and they know their chance to do you harm is coming to an end. you pull your weapon and are fully ready to use it. this is when they break off and go somewhere else to look for a new target. How many true criminals do you thing are going to go call the cops on you. they are more then likely wanted and if not most simply do not like the police. this is not the time to be saying "BETTER LATE THEN NEVER"
I know some are going to say you should have run to the well lite area with more people, and thats the problem with what if's, I am saying this for some reason or another is not an option.
Theres my "what if" and my two cents on the topic
Cracker
Actually they call as concerned citizens or even call as themselves. They know if a person is waving a gun, the permit will be history.
I have also had criminals call the police on each other.
The best one yet: My wife was manager over many rent houses, some of which were in low income, government funded areas. She sent a maintenance worker to do some repairs on one. He entered the house and saw the renter packaging some crack for re-sale. While there, he slipped a few packets into his pockets and brought it back to let my wife deal with it. She called me and I went to her office and examined it. Then, rather than me carry it in, I called a friend in Narcotics and told him to come get it and the information. He did. About an hour later, my wife called saying the lady had called her saying she wanted the crack back that the worker stole. I told the wife to have the lady call me. The lady called me and I gave her the phone number for the officer that picked the drugs up. She called him and said she wanted her drugs back. He said, come get them." She did. I was there when she walked into the police station, went to his office and demanded her drugs. He gave it to her. She walked out to her car. So did he, three other officers and myself. She was arrested, her car was seized and a search warrant was obtained for her residence.
Criminals want guns out of citizens hands. They are stupid and will call in on their own self.
I actually had three guys in a car try to run me off the road. They flashed a knife, I had nothing on me for protection, but I had my car and we were driving at 70mph down a highway, so I swerved at the car and they reacted by swerving away. They lost control and went flying through a corn field, what a sight that was!!!
I received a call from the State Patrol when I got home. These three punks called and said I endangered their lives!
I explained the incident of road rage and that they flashed a knife and the investigating officer laughed and sarcastically said he knew they were 'just three boys on their way to church'. He assured me there would be no charges filed.
I received a call from the State Patrol when I got home. These three punks called and said I endangered their lives!
I explained the incident of road rage and that they flashed a knife and the investigating officer laughed and sarcastically said he knew they were 'just three boys on their way to church'. He assured me there would be no charges filed.
Don't get me wrong here, my statements we only about me. For me, drawing as a crime deterrent is wrong because I am not trained to the level a Leo.
The right or wrong thing to do in these cases depends on many variables. If you have the ability (and as a Leo maybe the responsibility) to stop or apprehend a bad guy, that is clearly the right thing to do. I don't though. I personally will only draw in a situation that I feel requires immediate lethal force.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
When "your mind is racing" do you ever consider pulling out a cell phone, dialing 911 and start providing descriptions in a loud enough voice so they can hear you? In my opinion, in your "what if" you waited too long to do something that could have prevented you from pulling your weapon in the first place. Is it foolproof? No, but it is an option.
O.K. my point of my what if, was not to throw more what ifs into the what if.
I didn't want to hear about the cell phone, or you shouldn't be in a place like that dark street, why were you alone ect.
My point is if you feel all else has failed and you have made the decision to draw and if need be use your weapon and the bad guy gets out of dodge at the sight of your gun the odds of them calling the cops on you are slim to none. That is of course that they were really bad guys and not the girl scouts.
I know what ifs are just that and unless you right a book about the location of the sun, where the bad guys are standing, who's with you at the time, how many are there, how many people are on the street ect ect ect. with out the whole picture what ifs are just that.
cracker57
I didn't want to hear about the cell phone, or you shouldn't be in a place like that dark street, why were you alone ect.
My point is if you feel all else has failed and you have made the decision to draw and if need be use your weapon and the bad guy gets out of dodge at the sight of your gun the odds of them calling the cops on you are slim to none. That is of course that they were really bad guys and not the girl scouts.
I know what ifs are just that and unless you right a book about the location of the sun, where the bad guys are standing, who's with you at the time, how many are there, how many people are on the street ect ect ect. with out the whole picture what ifs are just that.
cracker57
Jinseru
Member
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2012
- Messages
- 61
- Reaction score
- 6
And I have to respond to this because this is a very probable situation. Actually I've found myself in a similar situation before. Before I provide the solution I have to ask you. I myself have gone through BLET, although not an officer I have the basic training. If you pull someone over and have a need to draw your weapon and hold them at cover. What do you do to cover your backside? You file your report and describe exactly what caused you to draw your weapon. As a matter of fact, to protect yourself, your department and all the people that have ever trained you, you file a report after every encounter not only to aid with criminal prosecution, but to protect all the aforementioned in case of a lawsuit.
Now I know as citizens we don't have the requirement to file a complaint after every situation, however. After ANY instance of drawing your weapon (weather you use it or not) it is your responsibility to (after getting to a safe location away from the threat) to contact the police and report this situation. This way you have already informed them of the problem and what your reason was for drawing the weapon. Give the operator the description of the individual(s) and be as descriptive of everything else as possible.
You'd be surprised how much this will play in your favour should the individuals you drew down on decide to play the innocent bystander role. In this event, if a "concerned" citizen calls the police and creates a hokey report, the dispatcher will already have knowledge of the event and be able to explain to the thugs posing as onlookers that there was an incident requiring the use of a firearm to protect life and limb and everything is alright. At that point the only way to continue some sort of prosecution would be the thugs calling in and filing a complaint themselves. Which in any case would be better because their records would be exposed so they will be reluctant to file any report and go through the legal process only to be interviewed and to be found lying.
Just my two cents on this. There are plenty lawful ways to "C.Y.A." if you will, in more ways than one.
Chuck1217
Member
cavnamvet and cmort addressed my thoughts, and Mr. Ayoob's, with drawing and hiding until needing the weapon. But a mention was made of policemen being able to downgrade the threat with talking- and I just wanta point out that when confronting a cop, a criminal hasw that instinctual hesitation to break the law in front of a law officer. As a civilian we don;t have that added ounce of prevention. One situation that I have worried about happening is, feeling seriously threatened and drawing- then the person shows they are unarmed and comes at me ready for a fight. I have two bad shoulders, a bad back and a bad knee- I can't run, pull one of my arms and I'll be easily controlled- but as an unarmed attacker am I safe in shooting the threat? I'm not really looking for an answer, I'll make the decision if it happens- but it does concern me. Ya know, I'm a working man- if someone put me out of work for weeks I would suffer financially- not to mention possible permanent damage to my shoulders- docs have already said after my surgeries, fuirther damage WILL result in loss of mobility to the arm. So, will a jury listen- pay enough attention- to the fact that I'm a kind of- special case- and was justified in shooting an unarmed attacker..? I hope , I pray,I never have to find out.
CCWKY
Member
Are we drawing our guns too soon?
I think some of us are, someone mentions having drawn 3 times, I think that sounds a little excessive. I know police officers that have not drawn that many times on perps. I have had my CCW for over 15 years and my gun has never been drawn on anyone and none of my friends or co-workers have to my knowledge. I have had a couple of concerns but nothing to warrant pulling my handgun. Theres nothing wrong with taking your handgun out of your holster as long as you are in fear of your own or someone elses life. If my gun comes out of its holster there is a good chance i'm gonna use it. Just my 2 cents worth.
I think some of us are, someone mentions having drawn 3 times, I think that sounds a little excessive. I know police officers that have not drawn that many times on perps. I have had my CCW for over 15 years and my gun has never been drawn on anyone and none of my friends or co-workers have to my knowledge. I have had a couple of concerns but nothing to warrant pulling my handgun. Theres nothing wrong with taking your handgun out of your holster as long as you are in fear of your own or someone elses life. If my gun comes out of its holster there is a good chance i'm gonna use it. Just my 2 cents worth.
Jinseru
Member
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2012
- Messages
- 61
- Reaction score
- 6
Now I can't speak for South Carolina, but I can speak for NC. In NC if you have a reasonable fear of life and limb you have the grounds for deadly force. So your reasoning for drawing the weapon was because you felt that your body could not handle a fight without being seriously injured or killed right? That justifies deadly force.
Not to be rude by comparison, but lets say for example a senior citizen was being provoked by someone to engage in a fight. And this senior knows that if he/she fights they will be seriously injured or killed where another person of able body would be able to fight. They have the right to use deadly force to protect life and limb whereas someone younger of able body might not have had the same grounds for use of deadly force.
Another comparison is this, lets say a small woman (who has no self defence training) is confronted hostilely by a large man, obviously she is at a disadvantage due to size comparison. Any reasonable person would conceive that she is at immediate danger because of this. She would be justified to use deadly fore to protect life and limb, whereas again, someone larger or with self defence training might not have had the same grounds for use of deadly force.
The law is firm about using deadly force, but it is leniant enough to acknowledge any sort of handicap.
I got this directly from the book "North Carolina Crimes" On page 11. Chapter 2 Bars and Defenses.
Defenses That Justify:
Self-Defense, Defense of Others and Defense of Property:
"Self defense, defense of others and defnse of property have been called 'Defensive-force defenses'. When these defenses apply, they justify conduct that otherwise would be criminal. Thus, for example, the law of self-defense provides, in part, that a person may kill an attacker if he or she reasonably believes that his or her acts are necessary in order to keep the attacker from killing him or her or doing him or her great bodily harm. Also, a person may, as a general rule, use force against another when the amount of force is reasonably necessary to protect himself or herself from the other person's assault, even when the other person's attack is not deadly.
..."
If you can articulate why you HAD to use deadly force, you should be just fine. The biggest word being ARTICULATE.
Sorry I did a horrible job quoting the book but I wasn't going to be too tedious about it, lol.
tom turner
US Veteran
You can draw too soon and live. Draw too late and you'd better hope the other guy is both really BAD and very unlucky.
I drew my .45ACP late one night in a Waffle House when I was one of only two customers. I was in a booth back by the bathroom area and thus trapped if gunfire broke out.
No one saw it though, for everyone was watching the irate cook who was REALLY trying to get the customer to do something (calling him a convicted felon who was dating an under-age girl) and throwing cast iron skillets!
Finally the customer, who had been cool, yelled, "That's it, I'm not taking anymore." He ran out to his car . . . and then headed right back!
No one knew my cocked and locked Kimber had slowly come out of my belt holster and was sitting under a napkin.
I was very calm . . . but peeved I was stuck in a bad situation. I had time to think about when and also IF I'd bring my weapon into play. I decided if the felon shot the cook I'd let him flee and let the professionals bag him.
But if he shot the cook and swung his barrel towards other workers or myself I'd drop him before he knew what hit him.
The advantage was in my favor, and the choice was mine. Hundreds of thousands of rounds down range, hundreds of handgun competitions, decades in the deep woods as a handgun hunter, I had a very calm confidence that I'd survive any deadly encounter if it ensued.
Luckily, the situation deescalated when the location manager drove up about the time the fella was coming back in the front door.
Truly a non-event in the end . . . and the Kimber discreetly went back in the holster.
Concealed means concealed . . . and YOU have the choice of when to draw and when to use it (or not). I chose to draw but conceal . . . since I was in a position to do so.
IF things had gotten deadly, this option gave me my best chance to survive . . . and WIN!
I drew my .45ACP late one night in a Waffle House when I was one of only two customers. I was in a booth back by the bathroom area and thus trapped if gunfire broke out.
No one saw it though, for everyone was watching the irate cook who was REALLY trying to get the customer to do something (calling him a convicted felon who was dating an under-age girl) and throwing cast iron skillets!
Finally the customer, who had been cool, yelled, "That's it, I'm not taking anymore." He ran out to his car . . . and then headed right back!
No one knew my cocked and locked Kimber had slowly come out of my belt holster and was sitting under a napkin.
I was very calm . . . but peeved I was stuck in a bad situation. I had time to think about when and also IF I'd bring my weapon into play. I decided if the felon shot the cook I'd let him flee and let the professionals bag him.
But if he shot the cook and swung his barrel towards other workers or myself I'd drop him before he knew what hit him.
The advantage was in my favor, and the choice was mine. Hundreds of thousands of rounds down range, hundreds of handgun competitions, decades in the deep woods as a handgun hunter, I had a very calm confidence that I'd survive any deadly encounter if it ensued.
Luckily, the situation deescalated when the location manager drove up about the time the fella was coming back in the front door.
Truly a non-event in the end . . . and the Kimber discreetly went back in the holster.
Concealed means concealed . . . and YOU have the choice of when to draw and when to use it (or not). I chose to draw but conceal . . . since I was in a position to do so.
IF things had gotten deadly, this option gave me my best chance to survive . . . and WIN!
tom turner
US Veteran
DIFFERENT EVENT . . . DIFFERENT SITUATION . . . DIFFERENT ACTIONS ON MY PART. Each situation will always be different, and usually sudden!
Another time I didn't "draw" but had my hand on my concealed 3' barreled S&W Model 65, stoked with 125 grain Federal Hydrashocks (the darling load at that time).
I'd staggered into a Holiday Inn about 2AM for a late room reservation. They put me way in the back and not a soul was stirring. Not a place for a lone woman for sure, or me either if trouble showed up!
Everything was fine until I exited my car with my travel bag. A two-legged predator in a black jogging suit w/hood appeared in a funnel area I'd have to pass through, a mere 12 feet away.
"Say main, need help wid yo luggage?" he asked . . . (like I needed help with that one bag)!!! NOTE: I NEVER load myself down when going to my car to a hotel room. Always keep a hand free, and preferable on something that others can't see!!!
Using language that would have made my drill sergeant blush to told him real quick he'd better get his . . . well you can imagine what I said.
The predator had two choices:
1. "Does that guy, with his hand inside the top of his travel bag, actually have his hand on a gun, and would he use it" (correct guess) or
2. "Is this old middle-aged guy crazy to insult me this way, all by his lonesome."
He chose to disappear as fast as he came. Predators look for easy targets, not hard ones . . .
Yet another successful non-event . . . and that's good!
PS: MY SHOCKING LESSON LEARNED . . .
I was so tired that night from driving that, when I got to my room I had a shiver go down my spine. The thumb strap was still fastened on the Bianchi Cyclone II belt holster in the bag. If he'd jumped me I'd have had no way to leverage the gun out of the holster! LIVE and LEARN!!! I never made THAT mistake again!!!
Another time I didn't "draw" but had my hand on my concealed 3' barreled S&W Model 65, stoked with 125 grain Federal Hydrashocks (the darling load at that time).
I'd staggered into a Holiday Inn about 2AM for a late room reservation. They put me way in the back and not a soul was stirring. Not a place for a lone woman for sure, or me either if trouble showed up!
Everything was fine until I exited my car with my travel bag. A two-legged predator in a black jogging suit w/hood appeared in a funnel area I'd have to pass through, a mere 12 feet away.
"Say main, need help wid yo luggage?" he asked . . . (like I needed help with that one bag)!!! NOTE: I NEVER load myself down when going to my car to a hotel room. Always keep a hand free, and preferable on something that others can't see!!!
Using language that would have made my drill sergeant blush to told him real quick he'd better get his . . . well you can imagine what I said.
The predator had two choices:
1. "Does that guy, with his hand inside the top of his travel bag, actually have his hand on a gun, and would he use it" (correct guess) or
2. "Is this old middle-aged guy crazy to insult me this way, all by his lonesome."
He chose to disappear as fast as he came. Predators look for easy targets, not hard ones . . .
Yet another successful non-event . . . and that's good!
PS: MY SHOCKING LESSON LEARNED . . .
I was so tired that night from driving that, when I got to my room I had a shiver go down my spine. The thumb strap was still fastened on the Bianchi Cyclone II belt holster in the bag. If he'd jumped me I'd have had no way to leverage the gun out of the holster! LIVE and LEARN!!! I never made THAT mistake again!!!
Last edited:
All I can say is I am glad that many here are not hostage negotiators. We would have a lot of dead hostages.
Pulling a gun is not always the answer. I have pulled mine many times but it was mostly work related and most often, the opposition never knew it was pulled. I have also used my gun and still live with my decsions to do so.
I have seen simple car jackings lead to a homicide because the carjackers intended to kill as well as steal and the victims did not resist.
I have seen school students kill their teacher that was giving them a ride home.
The fact is attacks come in many forms and most often when one least expects it. Most time, an individual does not have time to react. Legally people cannot go around pointing guns at people or shooting people simply because they have a permit. Get a copy of your state permit stats and see how many lost their permits due to violations of the law.
Carrying a gun gives one a mental sense of security more than physical protection. Studies have shown that those getting carry permits are those least likely to need a gun.
Pulling a gun is not always the answer. I have pulled mine many times but it was mostly work related and most often, the opposition never knew it was pulled. I have also used my gun and still live with my decsions to do so.
I have seen simple car jackings lead to a homicide because the carjackers intended to kill as well as steal and the victims did not resist.
I have seen school students kill their teacher that was giving them a ride home.
The fact is attacks come in many forms and most often when one least expects it. Most time, an individual does not have time to react. Legally people cannot go around pointing guns at people or shooting people simply because they have a permit. Get a copy of your state permit stats and see how many lost their permits due to violations of the law.
Carrying a gun gives one a mental sense of security more than physical protection. Studies have shown that those getting carry permits are those least likely to need a gun.
ChattanoogaPhil
Member
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2009
- Messages
- 14,601
- Reaction score
- 20,622
There are 343,000 of us here in Tenn permitted to carry.
Last year reporting- 2010
Permits Revoked = 108
Felony Conviction- 36
Court order/Administrative- 72
Permits Suspended = 756
Court Order/Administrative 45
Felony Arrest- 342
Misdemeanor Conviction- 337
Protective Order- 32
In 2009 there were 292 revoked and 436 suspended for a total of 728
In 2008 there were a total of 263 revoked and 344 suspended for a total of 607.
Don't know how many of the above were actually related to an incident while carrying a gun or had anything to do with a gun for that matter, but 100 permits revoked and 750 suspensions last report out of a total of 343,000 looks like folks are generally staying out of trouble with their guns and the law... much to the chagrin of anti-gun folks...
Tenn is issuing lot's of carry permits. Original issues (not renewals) 2008- 34,000. 2009- 59,000. 2010- 41,000
Edit Add - I just read at Legally Armed that most all the "Revoked" permits in Tenn are due to a lag time with original permits in getting info from the Feds. Tenn issues the permit but then later gets information about prior actions and revokes the permit. So... I guess you'd have to toss out the 655 revoked permits over the past three years and primary look at the just suspended. So.... in 2010 1 in about 450 permit holders had some type of issue with the law that resulted in some type of suspension. 2009 and 2008 a guestimate number would be 1 in 800-900 or so. And of those, I wonder what percentage were actually gun related issues?
Last edited:
Hook686
US Veteran
This I think might be the significant point ... it will be a jury that decides if you were put in "immediate and reasonable fear of life and limb", not your personal belief. If the DA thinks he can convince a jury, I doubt it matters what you think.
Similar threads
- Locked
