Homeland Security lost Guns

[dd698]

I read in USA Today that the Dept of Homeland Security has lost almost 200 firearms including rifles shotguns and pistols. Some of the arms were found in public restrooms,fast food places,and unlocked vehicles. Of course some of these guns ended up in criminal hands. In my opinion the indivual should have to bear the brunt of replacement cost at a mimimum and also be subjected to disciplinary action.

 

[ridewv]

I'm in agreement with you.

 

[snakeman32]

There is no excuse for something like that. That should be an automatic termination.


snakeman

 

[handejector]

C'mon.
I have dealt with TSA people that are competent and accomodating.

Just like everywhere else in life, some are good, some are not as good.

 

[smitholdtimer]

Homeland Security

But they are in charge of protecting "Our Homeland" and they are unable to keep up with their guns? I'm very comfortable with that fact, are you?

 

[jkc]

"Some of the arms were found in public restrooms..."

Which illustrates why public restrooms ought to be required by law to be equipped, at the very least, with coat hooks and small shelves or wire baskets where you could put a gun, cell phone, etc., while using the facilities. I'm surprised more guns aren't lost this way (maybe more than I think --- how would we know?).

 

[truckemup97]

Which illustrates why public restrooms ought to be required by law to be equipped,

Just what we need. More government regulations that make it even harder to do business.

If you can't keep up with your weapon, I don't think a shelf is going to help you.

 

[charlie sherrill]

When you have that many guns issued (does 180,000 sound right?) it stands to reason some of them will come up missing. I didn't see any stats but some of these guns were taken in burglaries from safes and lock boxes. As far as the ones left in restrooms are concerned, maybe they should start issuing lanyard rings.

When I was a young patrolman I was called to a gas station where the owner presented me with a gun and gunbelt that someone had left in his restroom. When I saw how big the belt was I immediately knew who it bolonged to. He had just gotten off work and hadn't said or noticed anything about his missing gun. When I came to work the next day he had a new gun and belt and still had not said anything about the missing old one. I kept it for over a week and then slipped it onto the front seat of his unlocked patrol car. He never said anything about it and I never told him what I had done.

 

[Muley Gil]

There are a couple of ways to prevent this.

If the restroom has a clean floor, leave the gun in the holster and lay the belt at your feet, where you would have to step over to exit the stall.

Another is to hang the belt on a hook, or lay it across your lap, and then put the handgun in your shorts, so that when you pull up yore britches, you either notice the extra weight, or the gun slides down on the floor. Either way, you shouldn't forget it.

I always adjust the belt while checking my gigline in the mirror before exiting the restroom. Check the fly too. 'Course, I've been wearing a Sam Browne since 1976. It's second habit by now.

 

[ENGINE18]

I am not a current or former LEO. That said, in my opinion, there is no excuse for anyone legally owning and/or posessing a firearm who "lost" it! Especially DHS! Typical "DO AS i SAY, NOT AS i DO!

 

[handejector]

You don't want to lay it on the nasty floor.
It is simple, really- buckle the duty belt and hang it around your neck.
When you wash your hands, you're almost sure to notice it in the mirror. If you don't, at least you'll still have it when the shift ends.

 

[Homie]

"Some of the arms were found in public restrooms..."

Which illustrates why public restrooms ought to be required by law to be equipped, at the very least, with coat hooks and small shelves or wire baskets where you could put a gun, cell phone, etc., while using the facilities. I'm surprised more guns aren't lost this way (maybe more than I think --- how would we know?).

I believe our beloved Elmer Keith lost a 4" 44 Mag. under the same circumstances. It was never recovered.

Good shooting.

 

[bobcat]

Thank you Charlie, one voice of reason. I work for DHS/CBP, yea, we lose guns, burglaries and the occasional stupidity. When I was in the Border Patrol one of my buds had his revolver fall out of his holster while riding a 3 wheeler, luckily we found it, another coworker had his house bugled when he was off duty and lost his duty weapon and some private guns, it happens. I leave mine at work, I have lots of guns at home, I don't need to take the g weapon home, plus I don't like it.

Trust me, there is diciplinary action if you had the means to prevent the loss or theft of your weapon. We are a huge agency, and yes, we have our share of idiots just like any company or agency. I will say however, that as an LEO, I've always been mindful of where my weapon is, and and even how I position it when I talk to folks, so I've never had issue, and yes, nature calls. However, if you are aware, you will realize that you took off your gunbelt off to answer nature's call. I don't like hanging it, because gravity will work it's magic, and the resultant fall and possible accidental discharge will more than ruin your day and your constitutional.

Give us some slack, there isn't an agency, department or company that doesn't have some loss of tools or supplies, no matter what those tools may be. Must have been a damn slow news day if this is the best they can dig up, besides, Tiger was the most important story as we all know.

 

[snakeman32]

It is not the fault of someone if their house is broken into or something of that nature. I left my duty weapon in one of the lock boxes leaving the jail one night because one of my guys was put out in trouble as I was getting ready to leave. But it was secure and locked up. Thank God for a backup weapon. I have never in all of my years in the Army or as an LEO left a weapon in a restroom or some other public place. I am sure there are disciplinary actions but I think it should be immediate termination if it is pure negligence.


snakeman

 

[woodsltc]

You don't want to lay it on the nasty floor.
It is simple, really- buckle the duty belt and hang it around your neck.
When you wash your hands, you're almost sure to notice it in the mirror. If you don't, at least you'll still have it when the shift ends.

The mental picture of someone finally seeing their rig while washing up made me laugh out loud !!!

 

[stiab]

Some of the arms were found in...unlocked vehicles.

Do you mean stolen from unlocked vehichles?

 

[Model 10]

If you take a dump and remember to pull up your pants, you should remember your gun.

 

[armadillo]

I'm sure that a large number of DHS employees are not "gun people." Many of them may never have shot a pistol until they were in the academy.

It is just another tool to them - like a radio or laptop.

 

[billhud]

"We're from the government and we're here to help you. Oh heck! Where did I put my gun? Have you seen it?"

 

[feralmerril]

I find it interesting to condem people for memory lapses, yet we have heros like bill jordan who killed a boss through a wall with a empty gun and elmer keith who lost a gun in a bathroom. Are they still your heros? I still like them. I have lived long enough and packed long enough to know no one is perfect.

 

[n4zov]

I knew this story rang a bell, and I finally found it! This is an ongoing problem with Federal law enforcement. This appeared in 2002:

"Year-old claims of missing guns and computers at the FBI, INS and three other federal law enforcement agencies were confirmed, as a Justice Department inspector general reported the agencies were missing more than 775 weapons and 400 laptop computers.

The items were reported to have been stolen, lost or gone missing mainly from the FBI over a two-year period, according to the report,....."

Missing Guns and Laptops Reported by Federal Agencies

 

[sigp220.45]

DHS, which includes Border Patrol, ICE, and several other agencies, had 178 guns lost or stolen out of 188,500 issued during FY 2006, 2007, and 2008. That is one tenth of one percent over three years. Not bad.

I know its fun to bash DHS for some reason, but I'd bet this rate is lower than many police departments and branches of the military.

I lost my Model 36 out of a snapped ankle holster when I got dragged by a car during an arrest. I didn't notice it until I was leaving lockup. I rocketed back and was told by a nice lady that she had found it in her yard and turned it in to the police. I got it back without any paper trail, complete with a deputy's initials scratched into the trigger guard. If I hadn't gotten it back I would have faced several days without pay and a permanent blot on my record.

Lost guns are taken seriously and the penalties are severe. As long as the government insists on hiring humans instead of robots this will continue to happen.

As noted even people who are highly revered here make mistakes. Bill Jordan killed a friend of his. Elmer Keith lost a gun. Jeff Cooper wrote about touching a round off in his den and out the window. I'll bet plenty of folks here have done stupid things as well.

 

[handejector]

sigp220.45-
THANKS!
I kept waiting for someone with a truly logical approach to explain the math.

I had a humorous, slightly sarcastic post in mind for a couple of days now that I won't do.

Thanks again.

 

[lonejacklarry]

I'll bet plenty of folks here have done stupid things as well.

You're right and I do not suggest the start of a new thread w/ that title either!

Many years ago (probably 1976) when I was a field sergeant for a large mid-western city police department, I responded w/ other officers to a tavern disturbance call. As I walked by one parked patrol car, I noticed that the shotgun was in the rack but the rack was not locked nor was the car. I secured the shotgun in my own car trunk and went inside the bar to observe the officers. After the call, I went on my way and listened as the other two officers got back in service.

I "trailed" my errant officer for over two hours as I did not want the occasion to arise where he would need the shotgun and not have it. After the two hours, he called me on the radio and asked if I would meet him at the station. When I responded, he looked like he was going to cry as he told me the story of how he had left the rack and car unlocked and his Remington 870 (and 4 rounds of 00 buck) were missing.

I retrieved his shotgun from my car trunk, handed it to him along w/ the loose shells, and drove off. Other officers told me later that he wanted to meet me at the station as he was going to resign to avoid me having to do all the paperwork.

That officer was promoted to sergeant in 1980, captain in 1988, and major in 1999. I retired in 1996 and this officer retired in 2003 and I was invited to his retirement party.

I'll give you one guess the subject of his first comment in his little "see ya" speech!

Everyone makes mistakes and some of these have consequences, some of which cannot ever be fixed. Sure, it was serious and I could easily have made the case for termination. As it turned out, he was a valuable asset to the PD for nearly 30 years. I'm sure he had the same attitude when he was a field sergeant, too.

My dad used to say that "that's why they put erasers on pencils."

 

[MKT]

Charlie, Bobcat and SigP220 are all on the mark. No one has mentioned though that some of these guns were stolen from murdered agents. Other guns went "missing" when the GOV vehicle was stolen, yep even G-rides get stolen. One of the agents who works for me had his plain car stolen - he is one of the guys on what would be our SWAT team, the car was locked and his sniper rifle secured in a lock box bolted in the trunk. Car was found, box compramised.

Heck, I even lost a gun in a foot pursuit once. Back before Level 2 or 3 retention holsters were the norm. I was using a plain old high ride duty holster and during one particularly difficult foot chase somehow my gun went flying out of the holster. I found it, but it wasn't easy.

Yes, most of the lost/missing guns are due to stupid moves. A bunch are also clerical errors such as when a case of guns gets shipped back to the armory for destruction or repair and the paperwork gets lost. The guns get taken care of but there is no record and they are now missing, when in reality they've been destroyed.

 

[Cyrano]

Please tell this pilgrim the story of how Elmer lost his gun in the bathroom. Did he flush it down the toilet? I almost lost a very expensive camera lens (Leitz 200mm Telyt)carried in a coat pocket down into the multi-hundred-gallon holding tank of a latrine: the lens hit the rim and bounced onto the floor instead of down the hole. My little heart went pit-a-pat for quite a while.

 

[Dano357]

I would have cuffed him upside his head!!