Hope this doesn't violate political subjects..

[EQGuy]

You had better stock on bullets and projectiles also. This is a copy and paste from the text of prop 63. " As used in subdivision (a) of Section 30305 and in Section 30306, "ammunition" includes,
but is not limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed loader, autoloader, or projectile
capable of being fired from a firearm with a deadly consequence. "Ammunition" does not
include blanks. "

 

[hoc9sw]

...I was wondering if, goodness forbid, this proposition passes and immediately, prior to the enacting of said law in January 2017, ammo dealers will cut us off, just like that. Opinions? Am I being a bit too paranoid, or just the right amount?

I would suspect that they will cut you off early, if not immediately.

Why?

If something gets back-ordered, or delayed in shipment, so that it actually arrives to you on or after the date that such a proposal went into effect, there would be the potential that the shipper, not just the receiver, may somehow be held liable. You would have to get a proper opinion of the law from the state Attorney General, but if I were shipping on-line, I would not risk it, nor want to be buying stock to fill orders I might not be able to deliver.

Sounds like you have reason to appear paranoid. You're not paranoid if they actually are out to get you..

I don't live in Calif, but am seeing ammo getting scarcer and even more expensive with each new scandal. Price increases of $30 / 1000 rounds over the last few months on some of my favorites seem to be the rule.

 

[Scott in NCal]

I am trying to liquidate my gun "accumulation". I have a 1943 Colt auto for my nephew as a bequeath. We HAVE to ship through a dealer here in WA. NONE in town will ship to Cali. UPS won't ship an antique 1873 Winnie I'm leaving to a high school friend (supposedly antiques are exempt under WA law=AG won't give me an opinion letter to give to UPS).

For the life of me, I can't understand why my bro retired in Cali! He could have bought a house here in the Cascades and had money left over. And he wouldn't have to go out of state to hunt elk and deer!

Check out, California Dept of Justice, Bureau of Firearms, BOF fourm 4544A, Report of Operation of Law or Inrafamilia Firearms Transfer. He could get the colt registered to himself before it ever leaves Washington. Make him come visit you. Drive or fly it back.

 

[scoobysnacker]

Luckily I'm in a gun-friendly state, but I'm definitely considering a few pre-emptive purchases now, before November comes along, just in case things get less friendly.

Restricting internet purchases of ammo would be a shame in many ways. I know a lot of folks like to buy bulk purchases of pistol ammo at slightly lower prices than you'd find at a local store, and I'm guilty of that too.

But the true benefit I find, is in less "politically scary" guns. My son loves to shoot our rifles. We have a Winchester 94 in 30-30, an Argentine Mauser in 7.65 x 53, a VZ 24 (Czech) mauser in 8mm Mauser, and a Mosin Nagant in 7.62 x 54R. These are great old guns, plenty of wood and steel, a relatively low rate of fire, and not very high capacity. And to shoot them I can roll over to Walmart... just for the 30-30. The rest, not so much. Nothing local, except one shop that carries stuff at $30 a box and up. Even the Mosin ammo is getting pricey.
But online, I can still find some surplus, and several places carry PPU at relatively good prices (about the same as walmart prices for 30-30).
Note, these are bolt actions with historical significance, not semiauto assault rifles.

If I lose online access, my 9mm options are a bit more limited, and a little more expensive. My old bolt actions will become wall hangers, unless/until I start to reload.

 

[Cal44]

I read the proposed initiative, and I don't see anything that would prevent mail order firms based in CA from selling to CA residents. You would have get your order shipped to a LGS and pick it up there.

California is a big state. Larger than many countries, and a huge market.

This will probably happen.

 

[martybee]

I'm afraid the case in CA is, "Heads They Win/Tails You Lose". Research and study, California Lt. Gov. Gavin Newsom's "Safety for All" voter proposition. Listed as Prop. 63 on the ballot before you vote!
I would say, You have reason to appear paranoid.

 

[.41fan]

Glad I live in Az.

 

[AlHunt]

The reloading "loophole"?

You just made me vomit. In Maine we keep hearing about the "loophole" where we don't have a law requiring background checks for private gun sales. We haven't needed one for 200+ years and we don't have any problems universal background checks would solve. But that doesn't stop the gun grabbers.

Like the poster above, I've never been so polarized on an issue in my life. These guys have had 50 years of "compromise" and they just keep inching further and further. Enough is enough.

 

[AlHunt]

You had better stock on bullets and projectiles also. This is a copy and paste from the text of prop 63. " As used in subdivision (a) of Section 30305 and in Section 30306, "ammunition" includes,
but is not limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed loader, autoloader, or projectile
capable of being fired from a firearm with a deadly consequence. "Ammunition" does not
include blanks. "

Looks to me like they're trying to back door reloading supplies. "Bullet" separate from "cartridge" makes me very suspicious.

 

[jkrez]

Scene with a Dillon 550 and a reporter:

THIS is a 'reloading machine'

Notice that every time I pull the handle, A COMPLETE 'BULLET' comes out!!!!!!!

"You can buy these at gunstores, or order them online. Without ANY ID or background check!"

"You can make ammo for "ANY GUN MADE"

"And the parts are easily obtainable, still without an ID or background check."

This was the exact moment I stopped watching ABC World News. After the school shooting Diane Sawyer said "Every time you pull the trigger a bullet comes out." I almost lost it. Have not watched Lame Stream since.

 

[gen3guy]

Come to Arizona and stock up. Ammo, powder, primers, other reloading supplies. All you need is pictures of dead presidents. Buy as much as you want. Drive back home.

 

[TTSH]

Looks to me like they're trying to back door reloading supplies. "Bullet" separate from "cartridge" makes me very suspicious.

And don't forget the phrase "includes but not limited to..."

Of course reloading supplies will be included.

 

[Cal44]

Come to Arizona and stock up. Ammo, powder, primers, other reloading supplies. All you need is pictures of dead presidents. Buy as much as you want. Drive back home.

Right, but according to this law, that would be a felony.

Buying in AZ isn't illegal, but importing it back to CA is.

I'm lucky to have a second home is Phoenix, so that is my bolt hole if CA gets too bad. (I grew up in Phoenix)

I also have 100 relatives of my wife, two sons, and 5 grand kids in CA so, for now, moving isn't on the table.

Shooting is an important hobby to me, but it's not my whole life.

Plus, I'm lucky enough to have a CA concealed carry license, and if I move to AZ, I'd have to give it up. So from a CCW point of view, I'm better off living in CA.

 

[Beemer-mark]

I am trying to liquidate my gun "accumulation". I have a 1943 Colt auto for my nephew as a bequeath. We HAVE to ship through a dealer here in WA. NONE in town will ship to Cali. UPS won't ship an antique 1873 Winnie I'm leaving to a high school friend (supposedly antiques are exempt under WA law=AG won't give me an opinion letter to give to UPS).!

You can ship the antique through USPS. You have to tell me how the State will know what you ship in a package.

This is why gun control laws work. No matter how stupid, no matter how unenforceable, most law abiding gun owners will bend over backwards to obey.

 

[iPac]

Out of this whole thread, not one person mentioned what the OP should do when it comes time to vote.

The OP should vote NO to the proposition and try to raise as much awareness and support against it as he can.

If all you do is sit back and complain, of course it will pass. You have to do your part in order to try and shut it down. You may be outnumbered, but you still have to try. Resort to social media, hang signs in your yard, attend meetings with like minded individuals and see if there are any movements you can start, etc.

I have been trying to raise all kinds of awareness here in PA about the criminal running for office. The SC justice the president gets to pick is going to be huge. Not to mention all the precedence Ubama made with his pen signature. Much more of that will follow if everyone chooses blue. She has already been confirmed on wanting total gun elimination. The next 4 years are going to be worst than Bush.

 

[Cal44]

Out of this whole thread, not one person mentioned what the OP should do when it comes time to vote.

The OP should vote NO to the proposition and try to raise as much awareness and support against it as he can.

If all you do is sit back and complain, of course it will pass. You have to do your part in order to try and shut it down. You may be outnumbered, but you still have to try. Resort to social media, hang signs in your yard, attend meetings with like minded individuals and see if there are any movements you can start, etc.

I have been trying to raise all kinds of awareness here in PA about the criminal running for office. The SC justice the president gets to pick is going to be huge. Not to mention all the precedence Ubama made with his pen signature. Much more of that will follow if everyone chooses blue. She has already been confirmed on wanting total gun elimination. The next 4 years are going to be worst than Bush.

calguns is a CA gun owners organization and they are working hard to raise awareness of these bills.

calguns.net is a forum they run for California gun owners (all are welcome) that has more members than this one.

So they are an active lobbying group.

 

[federali]

Terrible Minds Think Alike

New York State also suffered knee-jerk legislation following the Sandy-Hook CT. Massacre. We too are unable to buy ammo out of state unless shipped through an FFL. All gun transfers, even between close relatives, must also go through an FFL.

I did hear that the state is softening its position somewhat but I haven't yet checked. Perhaps there's hope for CA.

 

[teletech]

Don't panic. It is in many ways not quite as bad as you fear, though in some ways it's worse...

The governor of CA already signed into law a raft of restrictive measures an few months ago, this measure will alter the effect of those measures.
Just to sum up a few points of the *existing* law:
The ammunition restriction doesn't start right away, with stages coming in at the start of 2018 but doesn't take full effect until the middle of that year. Prop 63 will accelerate this process by having the whole thing in place by the beginning of 2018.
It will be illegal to bring more than 50 rounds of ammunition across the border without proper paperwork. You can still sell ammunition to a friend, same 50 round limit.
As to reloading components, I understand why people are confused, section 16150 has two definitions of ammunition. One is only a loaded round and the other is anything that even resembles gun-type stuff. Only the first is subject to the background check, the second is a prohibition on selling anything gun-related to anyone you know-or suspect to be shady. It's pretty slippery-slope but it shouldn't stop reloading components from being mail-order.
I myself think people are glossing over a few of the more disturbing parts of the law. I do wish people would read laws before commenting on what may or may not come to pass so here you go:
California Proposition 63 The Safety for All Act of 2016 - The Voter's Self Defense System - Vote Smart
or the PDF
http://smartgunlaws.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/SafetyForAllActFinal.pdf

 

[Ron M.]

Don't panic. It is in many ways not quite as bad as you fear, though in some ways it's worse...

The governor of CA already signed into law a raft of restrictive measures an few months ago, this measure will alter the effect of those measures.
Just to sum up a few points of the *existing* law:
The ammunition restriction doesn't start right away, with stages coming in at the start of 2018 but doesn't take full effect until the middle of that year. Prop 63 will accelerate this process by having the whole thing in place by the beginning of 2018.
It will be illegal to bring more than 50 rounds of ammunition across the border without proper paperwork. You can still sell ammunition to a friend, same 50 round limit.
As to reloading components, I understand why people are confused, section 16150 has two definitions of ammunition. One is only a loaded round and the other is anything that even resembles gun-type stuff. Only the first is subject to the background check, the second is a prohibition on selling anything gun-related to anyone you know-or suspect to be shady. It's pretty slippery-slope but it shouldn't stop reloading components from being mail-order.
I myself think people are glossing over a few of the more disturbing parts of the law. I do wish people would read laws before commenting on what may or may not come to pass so here you go:
California Proposition 63 The Safety for All Act of 2016 - The Voter's Self Defense System - Vote Smart
or the PDF
http://smartgunlaws.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/SafetyForAllActFinal.pdf

I read through the proposition, and I have to politely disagree with any summation that it's no big deal. We have judges in this state that will declare otherwise, they have overturned overwhelmingly approved propositions before, and interpreted others well beyond their intent. And what a coincidence that the most onerous parts of the intended law will take place right after our next gubernatorial election, where Gavin "Nuisance", a sponsor and supporter of the latest impingement on our 2nd amendment rights is predicted to be the front runner of that contest.

 

[TTSH]

Come to Arizona and stock up. Ammo, powder, primers, other reloading supplies.

Right, but according to this law, that would be a felony. Buying in AZ isn't illegal, but importing it back to CA is.

This is why gun control laws work. No matter how stupid, no matter how unenforceable, most law abiding gun owners will bend over backwards to obey.

Like it or not, at some point, sooner for some... later for others, most of us are going to have to ask ourselves the question: At what point is too far too far?

The natural inclination of honest American gunowners is to obey the gun laws no matter how silly, absurd, dangerous or even unconstitutional they may be. As you say, we bend over backwards to do so... and the grabbers know that and take full advantage of that to hurt us as much as they can with no adverse consequences. CT and NY showed that there is a point beyond which some people can't be pushed... and the grabbers were shocked and didn't know what to do about it.

Here in MA, the AG unilaterally changed existing gun law to make untold thousands of us into instant, retroactive "Felons-in-Waiting"! How do you think that went down? You obey the law to the very last letter for decades... and still you end up a Felon in the eyes of a rabidly anti-2A AG.

What is one supposed to do in a situation like that? Damned if you do and damned if you don't. The grabbers love it.