hot 44 specials

[MWAG]

got some load data off handloads.com for hot 44 special using lil' gun. the loads ranged from 16.0gr to 19.0gr with a 250gr lswc bullet. i decided on 17.7gr behind a 240gr lswc bullet. can't wait to try 'em out in my sa 44 magnum virginian dragoon. this is the first load data for the 44 special that i have found using lil' gun powder. no 44 spl loads on the hogdon site using lil' gun............

 

[WILL TERRY]

got some load data off handloads.com for hot 44 special using lil' gun. the loads ranged from 16.0gr to 19.0gr with a 250gr lswc bullet. i decided on 17.7gr behind a 240gr lswc bullet. can't wait to try 'em out in my sa 44 magnum virginian dragoon. this is the first load data for the 44 special that i have found using lil' gun powder. no 44 spl loads on the hogdon site using lil' gun............

HODGDON makes it's living selling smokeless propellents. One of their recent success stories is LIL GUN. You cannot find any loading data for LIL GUN in the 44SPL cartridge from the folks who know more about that foomfodder than anyone else in the U.S. of A., and you never asked yourself WHY !!???

 

[VAdoublegunner]

Brian Pearce reports some pretty stiff 44 SP loads (up to 25Kpsi) in the June 2009 Handloader for the Ruger/Lipsey's flat top Blackhawk. No Lil'Gun loads though.

I used the one listed for H110 and a 240 Hornady HP/XTP, except used WW296 instead of H110 with a 1.0 gr charge reduction. It chrono'd 1183 fps out of a 4 5/8" barrel and was superbly accurate at 50 yards.

I usually shoot Speer 240 LSWCs around 985fps with a charge of WSF (a self developed load).

I don't see why Lil'Gun wouldn't work as a 44 SP powder. It does well in *a proper* 45 Colt, and there is load data for 44 magnum, so a very experienced handloader should be able to extrapolate a starting charge. However, that depends a lot on the experience of the handloader.

The only drawback I see is that Lil'Gun, while usually delivering better velocity at lower pressures than many other powders, is not particularly good in shorter barrels nor unless used with heavy for caliber bullets, in my experience. One reason that you may not find manufacturer published load data for it is that the normal low pressures of 44SP, the general unsuitability of heavy for caliber bullets in that cartridge (generally shorter cylinder length), and the fact that it is somewhat of an esoteric cartridge, did not warrant Hodgdon doing a workup.

 

[Joni_Lynn]

Bob Baker of Freedom Arms has reported seeing problems with the use of lil gun powder. They have had guns returned to them with ruined barrels that didn't have all that much use with that powder. It appears to have a much higher burning temperature than other similar powders.
With so many other powders available I take that as enough reason to not use it. (especially in my FA)

 

[VAdoublegunner]

Good point about the erosion issues, Joni. I have read some discussion on this as well. I haven't noticed it in 45 Colt heavy loads in Blackhawks, and don't find any advantage to Lil'Gun in 44M, so don't use it there, but it has made me rethink the issue somewhat. I do still use it in rifle/carbine loads, and find it provides a distinct advantage there.

 

[tennexplorer]

Joni_Lynn,

I haven't read the article. Does he describe throat erosion or erosion further down the tube also? I have only used it so far in .357 for a Marlin carbine. Getting superb accuracy. Thanks for any info.

 

[Joni_Lynn]

Here's a few excerpts from his post.
1. We have seen numerous barrels damaged by using Lil Gun
2. some had as few as 30 rounds using Lil Gun through them
3. Under magnification the surface appeared to have heated to a point of flowing using the Lil Gun loads and the heavy load was worse than the light load. This is probably due to Lil Gun having about 10% more nitro glycerin in it than H-110.

I'm guessing that it won't treat your barrel very good.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

In the thread that Joni Lynn referrenced above, I posted to Mr. Baker and asked him if it was just Lil'Gun with the 454 Casull, or other calibers as well. He replied that it did affect calibers other than 454, like my .475. He also mentions having issues with it in the 357 mag. I liked using it until I read that thread, and posted to Mr. baker. I no longer use it in my gun. It might be ok for certain rounds,to that I can't speak. I know some are still using it, and posting that it works well.

Well, yea, it works great! That doesn't mean that it isn't doing damage though.

 

[tennexplorer]

Which forum is that? Can you post a link? Thanks.

 

[Joni_Lynn]

It's in the Freedom Arms forum at Graybeard Outdoors.

 

[Jellybean]

Will Terry, good to see you're still kicking. I read a lot of your posts on a different forum and highly respect your opinions and experience.

I also agree with you on this topic, and would like to also ask MWAG a couple of questions. Did the data from handloads.com include pressures from the loads? Why would you even want to load hot .44Spls when you have a gun that will chamber .44mags? Tests I've done on .357, .41 and .44 mags using progressively shorter cases tell me it's best to stay with the longer cases. Also, I read the mentioned post at Graybeard a few days ago and wouldn't think about using Lil' Gun in shorter than chamber brass, if at all in a handgun.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Have you ever been to handloads.com?

Will Terry, good to see you're still kicking. I read a lot of your posts on a different forum and highly respect your opinions and experience.

I also agree with you on this topic, and would like to also ask MWAG a couple of questions. Did the data from handloads.com include pressures from the loads? Why would you even want to load hot .44Spls when you have a gun that will chamber .44mags? Tests I've done on .357, .41 and .44 mags using progressively shorter cases tell me it's best to stay with the longer cases. Also, I read the mentioned post at Graybeard a few days ago and wouldn't think about using Lil' Gun in shorter than chamber brass, if at all in a handgun.

Not all of the loads posted on handloads.com are from "guests" or individuals. It also has great "one stop shop" information that brings in all powder manufacturer's data as well.

Check it out, I think you will be surprised.

 

[Nygma]

Which forum is that? Can you post a link? Thanks.

There is a link in this thread:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/97425-issues-lil-gun.html

 

[Jellybean]

Thanks Skip, I checked them out years ago, and wasn't all that impressed. I always approach any load data with caution, no matter the source. BTW, I am a forum member there too!

 

[bronco45]

Thank you Joni Lynn and others posting about Lil Gun, I used it in some Ruger 45 loads and it shot well, however, didn't examine the bbl for wear and tear.


Back to H110, works great, with a long track record. Wasn't Lil Gun originally developed for 410 Shotgun?

Tom

 

[Joni_Lynn]

I think it was originally a shotgun powder.