How can I improve my 100 yard groups?
- Thread starter Snidely Whiplash
- Start date
Your horizontal spread appears to be about 1/2”, which is outstanding. Your ammo suits your gun.
If you can shoot 1/2” horizontal, you can do the same vertically. Your trigger work does not impact vertical spread. So what does?
It is often uneven vertical pressure on the barrel, even through the stock. I suspect that is caused here by shooting from your bipod. Atlas is a top of the line piece of gear. But if it is mounted way out on your fore end, and your barrel is not 100% free floated, that can definitely cause such vertical stringing with differences in “loading” forward pressure on your bipod.
That pre-loading will also negatively impact your Natural Point of Aim (NPOA). To load a bipod you have to muscle forward into it.
Another cause of vertical stringing can be breath control. The old directive to take breath, let it out halfway, then squeeze the trigger is not very accurate. What is halfway? Can you duplicate 1/2 way each time? Most of us cannot. So, let your breath all the way out—bottom out. Easier to duplicate. You will have 3-4 seconds to operate the trigger before oxygen deprivation sets in and you start shaking.
So, try shooting from a bag positioned about 1/2 way under your fore end. Get NPOA, breathe and watch your scope move, usually from 1 o’clock (empty lungs) to 7 o’clock (full, natural breath). Adjust your physical position so the gun stops moving, empty lungs, on center target. Do this three times exactly the same before shooting each time. Adjust your position if you’re not perfect three times in a row. Fourth time with empty lungs, press the trigger straight to the rear.
I’ll bet you can reduce that group to a wall hanger of which you can be even more proud. Good luck.
If you can shoot 1/2” horizontal, you can do the same vertically. Your trigger work does not impact vertical spread. So what does?
It is often uneven vertical pressure on the barrel, even through the stock. I suspect that is caused here by shooting from your bipod. Atlas is a top of the line piece of gear. But if it is mounted way out on your fore end, and your barrel is not 100% free floated, that can definitely cause such vertical stringing with differences in “loading” forward pressure on your bipod.
That pre-loading will also negatively impact your Natural Point of Aim (NPOA). To load a bipod you have to muscle forward into it.
Another cause of vertical stringing can be breath control. The old directive to take breath, let it out halfway, then squeeze the trigger is not very accurate. What is halfway? Can you duplicate 1/2 way each time? Most of us cannot. So, let your breath all the way out—bottom out. Easier to duplicate. You will have 3-4 seconds to operate the trigger before oxygen deprivation sets in and you start shaking.
So, try shooting from a bag positioned about 1/2 way under your fore end. Get NPOA, breathe and watch your scope move, usually from 1 o’clock (empty lungs) to 7 o’clock (full, natural breath). Adjust your physical position so the gun stops moving, empty lungs, on center target. Do this three times exactly the same before shooting each time. Adjust your position if you’re not perfect three times in a row. Fourth time with empty lungs, press the trigger straight to the rear.
I’ll bet you can reduce that group to a wall hanger of which you can be even more proud. Good luck.
Last edited:
sgtsandman
US Veteran
Another tip I just thought about is to set yourself and the rifle so it is naturally pointed at the target. Any time you have to muscle the rifle onto the target, you are building in error. Set yourself and the rifle up and look at the target. Is the sights or the cross hairs on the target and reasonably centered? if not, adjust yourself and the rifle so it is. It won't be perfectly centered but the less you have to force the sights on the target, the more accurate you will be over and over again.
I thought some more about your vertical stringing.
I believe the ACOG model you have has green crosshairs, right? There are better targets for a clearer sight picture for your purposes, photo attached, assuming you have green crosshairs
I think your scope is 3.5x rather than 4x, but that’s not too significant. The eye relief is 2.5”. This helps with speed as this is a somewhat generous amount of head placement behind the scope while still seeing the full scope without black edges. That may be part of the problem. Such forgiveness comes at a cost in accuracy. Make sure your cheek weld on the stock and head position are exactly the same for best target accuracy. You may have vertically slightly changed your head position shot-to-shot.
ETA: Is your collapsible stock tight when locked, or wobbly?
Your gun is probably still breaking in. With some barrel cleaning between range visits, it should take about 75 rounds to settle. They don’t have to be high dollar ammo. Milsurp will do. Just cycle that action and condition the bore by firing. And dry fire at home and on the range. The trigger will improve, but it may take a few hundred pulls to really note the difference.
It will be hard to find a .308 battle rifle to handle shots to 400+ yards without it weighing what your’s does. If you are changing your intended purpose from a combat rifle to a range rifle, then an aftermarket trigger and higher magnification scope might be a good idea, eventually. However, if you can shoot 1 MoA with it in its current configuration, you should be very pleased. It doesn’t need any better hardware.
It would be helpful to know in what order those shots hit that last target. If the first was dead on and each succeeding shot went higher, that is noteworthy. Also, knowing how much time you took between shots. Your barrel may have heated up if you shot them all in 30 seconds. That could string shots vertically.
Also, make sure your muzzle device is tight. If it’s loose that would affect barrel harmonics and could string shots.
My last suggestion for accuracy potential is to shoot the gun single shot. With the bolt locked back, insert a loaded mag, release the bolt, remove the mag. This does two things: it allows you to get lower in your bags (without a mag sticking down so far), and it will give you consistent pressure on the bolt, i.e., zero, from a loaded mag spring. This makes cartridge seating in the chamber more consistent, and that can increase accuracy, a little.
Clean your barrel. Go to the range and test your complete set up and firing discipline with repeated dry firing with no movement of the crosshairs at the trigger break. On a separate target, warm and condition your clean barrel with two perfectly aimed shots. This will also check your zero. With 1/3 MoA clicks on your ACOG, it looks like you could come left 2 clicks. You may need to come down up to 4-5 clicks if that vertical string was not consistently upward.
Real accuracy is statistically more significant if you shoot 10 rounds. To avoid heating the barrel, after each perfectly aligned shot (after follow through), retract and lock the bolt. This will help cool the barrel. Check the target with a spotting scope or even 10x binos and record each shot by number on a duplicate mini target on the bench. Load one round and get back to NPOA. Same head position behind the scope. Breathe. Fire. Each of your shots should be about 1 minute apart. Shoot five and take a break for a few minutes, bolt open. Go back and repeat for another 5 rounds.
This is not combat shooting. It is a test of the maximum accuracy potential from both you and your rig. I think you have the potential to be at 1 MoA, discounting a called flyer (you knew you jerked or fired when sights were slightly misaligned). Make a note on your duplicate target when you shoot a flyer as to why it was off.
I look forward to seeing your next target(s).
Redirect Notice
I believe the ACOG model you have has green crosshairs, right? There are better targets for a clearer sight picture for your purposes, photo attached, assuming you have green crosshairs
I think your scope is 3.5x rather than 4x, but that’s not too significant. The eye relief is 2.5”. This helps with speed as this is a somewhat generous amount of head placement behind the scope while still seeing the full scope without black edges. That may be part of the problem. Such forgiveness comes at a cost in accuracy. Make sure your cheek weld on the stock and head position are exactly the same for best target accuracy. You may have vertically slightly changed your head position shot-to-shot.
ETA: Is your collapsible stock tight when locked, or wobbly?
Your gun is probably still breaking in. With some barrel cleaning between range visits, it should take about 75 rounds to settle. They don’t have to be high dollar ammo. Milsurp will do. Just cycle that action and condition the bore by firing. And dry fire at home and on the range. The trigger will improve, but it may take a few hundred pulls to really note the difference.
It will be hard to find a .308 battle rifle to handle shots to 400+ yards without it weighing what your’s does. If you are changing your intended purpose from a combat rifle to a range rifle, then an aftermarket trigger and higher magnification scope might be a good idea, eventually. However, if you can shoot 1 MoA with it in its current configuration, you should be very pleased. It doesn’t need any better hardware.
It would be helpful to know in what order those shots hit that last target. If the first was dead on and each succeeding shot went higher, that is noteworthy. Also, knowing how much time you took between shots. Your barrel may have heated up if you shot them all in 30 seconds. That could string shots vertically.
Also, make sure your muzzle device is tight. If it’s loose that would affect barrel harmonics and could string shots.
My last suggestion for accuracy potential is to shoot the gun single shot. With the bolt locked back, insert a loaded mag, release the bolt, remove the mag. This does two things: it allows you to get lower in your bags (without a mag sticking down so far), and it will give you consistent pressure on the bolt, i.e., zero, from a loaded mag spring. This makes cartridge seating in the chamber more consistent, and that can increase accuracy, a little.
Clean your barrel. Go to the range and test your complete set up and firing discipline with repeated dry firing with no movement of the crosshairs at the trigger break. On a separate target, warm and condition your clean barrel with two perfectly aimed shots. This will also check your zero. With 1/3 MoA clicks on your ACOG, it looks like you could come left 2 clicks. You may need to come down up to 4-5 clicks if that vertical string was not consistently upward.
Real accuracy is statistically more significant if you shoot 10 rounds. To avoid heating the barrel, after each perfectly aligned shot (after follow through), retract and lock the bolt. This will help cool the barrel. Check the target with a spotting scope or even 10x binos and record each shot by number on a duplicate mini target on the bench. Load one round and get back to NPOA. Same head position behind the scope. Breathe. Fire. Each of your shots should be about 1 minute apart. Shoot five and take a break for a few minutes, bolt open. Go back and repeat for another 5 rounds.
This is not combat shooting. It is a test of the maximum accuracy potential from both you and your rig. I think you have the potential to be at 1 MoA, discounting a called flyer (you knew you jerked or fired when sights were slightly misaligned). Make a note on your duplicate target when you shoot a flyer as to why it was off.
I look forward to seeing your next target(s).
Redirect Notice
Last edited:
BigBill
Absent Comrade
My accuracy test ammo is 308 South African FMJ ball ammo. If any of my 308 rifles can be accurate with this surplus ammo it’s good. Haven’t seen any lately. Or test over the counter new ammo till you find one that’s accurate. In my 6.5 swedish Mauser the new s&b 131 gr sp ammo will shoot 1 1/2” 5 shot groups no scope at 100 yds. My Remington 700 in 338wm will put two bullets in the same hole at 100yds using new Winchester super X 225 gr psp at 100 yds.
Besides that the only way is to reload using match grade boat tail FMJ bullets. If it’s not accurate with new ammo.
My old 1972 western Auto Revelation mossberg 30-06 bolt action will shoot nickle 5 shot groups at 100= yds benchrested with my reloads if I do my part. Not bad for a $175 gun New with scope.
I made my own gun rests and pull the gun straight down into the rests at the sametime adjusting the rear rest till the sights line up at 100 yds. I used 2”x 10” fir vee shaped padded with old pants. And the rear rest is 2” x6” fir vee shaped narrow so it holds the rear of the stock, it’s padded too. It’s a rock solid rest.
Controlling your breathing is next. One deep breath, let it out, another deep breath let it halfway out, hold and shoot.
Besides that the only way is to reload using match grade boat tail FMJ bullets. If it’s not accurate with new ammo.
My old 1972 western Auto Revelation mossberg 30-06 bolt action will shoot nickle 5 shot groups at 100= yds benchrested with my reloads if I do my part. Not bad for a $175 gun New with scope.
I made my own gun rests and pull the gun straight down into the rests at the sametime adjusting the rear rest till the sights line up at 100 yds. I used 2”x 10” fir vee shaped padded with old pants. And the rear rest is 2” x6” fir vee shaped narrow so it holds the rear of the stock, it’s padded too. It’s a rock solid rest.
Controlling your breathing is next. One deep breath, let it out, another deep breath let it halfway out, hold and shoot.
Last edited:
soonerbb
Member
Proper eye relief and a natural head position on the stock, do you know what your length of pull is? Welcome to the forum...
1st time out with my stock M&P 10 shot a best group of 1-1/2" at 100 yards. I think a better trigger is called for other groups spread out to 3+ inches. I'm a trigger snob after shooting bullseye with a Walther GSP and two very nice 4# 1911s. The M&P trigger is like dragging a brick through the sand. Great weapon otherwise and excellent value.
BigBill
Absent Comrade
Put a tad of moly paste on your trigger sear.
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