how much crimp on a 148 HBWC?

[Glennp]

Im loading the standard .38 target load:
148 HBWC speer bullet over 2.7grn bullseye on a CCI primer.

This is my first venture into pistol reloading, and I chose to go with the lee factory crimp die. Im not trying to start a roll crimp vs taper crimp vs FCD battle here, I have the die and I want to use it.

I set it up as per the directions but instead of 1/2 turn for light crimp and full turn+ for a heavy crimp, im at around 3/4 turn and barely getting anything, or at least that I know of. Im sure if I went further ide get more visable results but I dont know when to stop, really.

So here comes the question:
How much is enough? Just enough that the crimp is easily visable? barely visable? Should I measure it and determine it that way? I know with this load the crimp basically is just needed to un-flare the mouth, since its not a big boomer its not really needed to hold the round back.

Thanks!
Glenn P.



EDIT (found on second page)
So I pulled a loaded and crimped round along with a factory wadcutter.

Heres what i found:
It actually took a hair more strength to pull my round vs factory (crimp must be alright!)

my base goes from .358" to .355/.3555"
is this an acceptable amount of bullet compression? Im using a .358 RCBS cowboy expander with the .358 plug. Should i go up to the .361 plug?

another discovery: right at the mouth, the loaded and crimped round is approx .375 diameter. midway down where the bullet is, its about .3765/.377 (varies)

Again, is this a good sign? very, very slight crimp and no bulge is what im reading. thoughts?

 

[OKFC05]

Unless you're using a very light revolver, just barely past removing the bell is enough, if the brass/bullet size are a tight fit.
A caliper measurement of the body and the mouth will tell you how much crimp you have. Don't overdo it for light loads.

 

[MWAG]

is your FCD for 38 or 357 or both? this could be the reason it's not reaching down far enough based on the factory instructions.

 

[Glennp]

So basically if it fits in the cylinder, i'm good to go? I shouldnt need a visually apparent taper?
Its a K38 in question, nothing light and heavy recoiling.


Im not sure if the FCD is a combo or .38, Im not home now either. However, if it was a combo, all it means is I just have to screw down further (as i'm experiencing) correct?

 

[Groo01]

Groo here
Are you seating at or just below the case mouth[flush]????
If so ,then a roll crimp would be called for.
If seated out of the case , the lee fcd will work fine [I use one]
follow instructions.
I for one do not crimp light on any load I make ,light or full power.
Have you ever seen a Factory FWC or other load that is not crimped
at least normal or full and/or sealed in place?????????
Smokless powders need to get started well before the bullet leaves the case,the one thing you don't want is the bullet moved by the primer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! before the pressure of the powder builds..

 

[Kirmdog]

My FCD is for 38, 357 mag and 357 max. It works fine on my 38 special reloads. I don't think they make a different one for each cartridge just one FCD for all of the above.

Glenp. I put the base of the die so it touches the shell holder with the crimp part backed off. Then with the ram of the press (single stage) all the way up I start turning the crimp part in until I see the handle of my press start to move up. From there I turn it 1/2 turn for my reloads w/148 gr HBWC for my Model 52. You should be able to see the crimp rolling in with the 1/2 turn, if not turn it more until you see it starting to crimp. Don't be afraid to exeriment and waste a caes or two, it's the best way to find out what exactly your crimp die is doing.

Kirmdog

 

[Glennp]

Yes, im seating flush with the case mouth, although im also going to try seating .1" out with same crimp, good idea or waste of time?

 

[Joni_Lynn]

If it were an autoloading pistol then crimp would be whatever the gun demands.
Since it's a revolver only crimp as much as is necessary to keep the bullets from moving into or out of the case when you're shooting. When shooting, don't fire the final round, leave it in the cylinder through several reloads and then check to see if the bullet has moved. If it hasn't then you're okay.
Usually as said in a previous post, just remove the flare from the case and that should be sufficient.

 

[mcanders]

If it were an autoloading pistol then crimp would be whatever the gun demands.
Since it's a revolver only crimp as much as is necessary to keep the bullets from moving into or out of the case when you're shooting. When shooting, don't fire the final round, leave it in the cylinder through several reloads and then check to see if the bullet has moved. If it hasn't then you're okay.
Usually as said in a previous post, just remove the flare from the case and that should be sufficient.

Same way I was taught about keeping the bullet still under recoil.

 

[johngalt]

I apply just enough crimp to remove the flare/belling, for both my revolver and auto.

 

[Nathan Forrest]

I apply just enough crimp to remove the flare/belling, for both my revolver and auto.

Same here.

 

[Glennp]

So I pulled a loaded and crimped round along with a factory wadcutter.

Heres what i found:
It actually took a hair more strength to pull my round vs factory (crimp must be alright!)

my base goes from .358" to .355/.3555"
is this an acceptable amount of bullet compression? Im using a .358 RCBS cowboy expander with the .358 plug. Should i go up to the .361 plug?

another discovery: right at the mouth, the loaded and crimped round is approx .375 diameter. midway down where the bullet is, its about .3765/.377 (varies)

Again, is this a good sign? very, very slight crimp and no bulge is what im reading. thoughts?

 

[WILDCATT]

crimp

I roll crimp.I load 148 HBWC with 2.8 gr 700X I shoot in a S&W 52 and a mod 10 bull.look at a factory load.I use the FCD on rifle not pistol.

 

[oldRoger]

How much crimp you need is argumentative. There are as many opinions as target shooters. The oldest manual I have a Lyman from the mid-50s says: "a firm crimp should be applied to achieve even ignition".
I would suggest a roll crimp. If you like to experiment load 10 rounds each at various crimps and see what shoots best.
2.7 grs Bullseye is certainly the classic load, some guns shoot better with slightly more. My best results were with 2.9.

 

[5906fan]

even with lswc slugs I apply a good crimp, visibly rolled over. better safe than sorry. but BE doesn't need much crimp to light off - the mid-range and slower powders do.

 

[mstuhr]

Gundigest 1963

Howdy,
I was reading a 63 Gun Digest and Gil Hebbard was testing three differnet Model 52 .38 Masters. He ran 300 differnt loads through them and advises a taper crimp of .370 on a flush seated HBWC for best accuracy. His test showed an advantage over a roll crimp. He ran 38 S&W cases and other than wadcutter bullets in some loads and other than wads loaded backwards in others. He was looking for a good one. He found several, but nothing beat the factory Remington with 10 shots in 1.03" at fifty yards
These were autos but I can't imagine that it is not good advice for any HBWC.
Good luck
Mike

 

[chriske]

With that load, hardly any crimp at all.
Just enough to remove the flare you put on the case prior to bullet seating, maybe ONE hair more.
That way your cases will stand reloading for years (I have some I've been re-using for 15 years now)
More is superfluous

 

[TAROMAN]

Dies Recommendations for Wadcutters.

OK, I have read enough on wadcutter crimps to make my head explode.

Getting ready to buy 38 Spl dies specifically for wadcutter loading. My first impulse was the LEE 4-die set. It has the FC crimp AFAIK.

I use these for 44 Spl/Mag with no problems.

So, whaddaya think? Are these OK? RCBS better? I see they have a 38 specific set, not 38/357.

 

[semperfi71]

I would suggest only enough crimp to allow the cartridge to return to its normal dimensions.

Too much crimp on a soft, hollow-base wadcutter can cause the charge to blow through the wadcutter and leave the bullet stuck in the bore. With a hole all the way through the bullet.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

When I use a DEWC bullet that has "crimp grooves" on each side I seat and crimp to that groove. I also like and use a Lee FCD but I see no reason to add a heavy crimp on target loads. I feel you only raise the pressures needlessly and really add nothing to the round because of it. Fast target powders don't benefit from a heavy crimp like slower powders and hard to ignite powders like W296/H110. Also, you only shorten the live of the brass for no good reason.

Those are just my feeling on this matter. I'm not telling you not to crimp because I do too but if it were my ammo I would use the 1/2 turn or just a little less so you see only a slight indent into the groove. I would never use a heavy crimp if I were seating flush with the case. A crimp like that just might effect the bullet and harm accuracy. I would use a minimal crimp if seating the bullet flush.