how reliable is a striker fired pistol in reguards to AD's?

[cmort666]

Such as knowing that physiologically, one's fingers tend to subconsciously contract under stress. It doesn't matter whether the trigger is 3#, 5#, 8#, or 12#, or how long or short it is. If you have your finger on the trigger when you don't intend to shoot, the you're going to have an ND. If you have the muzzle covering someone you don't intend to shoot, you're going to negligently shoot someone before it's necessary.

There will always be a certain percentage who think that trendy gadgets are cheaper than proper training, supervision and discipline.

And they ARE... until the wrong person gets shot.

 

[Old TexMex]

And there are always going to be people who can do very well in training, then when placed in a truly dangerous encounter, will freeze, panic or make the wrong decision. No matter whether they're in control of a G17, an RPG or a forklift. The only way to know is to know.

And that's a bummer....

 

[Old TexMex]

There will always be a certain percentage who think that trendy gadgets are cheaper than proper training, supervision and discipline.

And they ARE... until the wrong person gets shot.

I personally veel that the powers that be in NYNY want the police to be poorly trained and less able to use handguns. Every untrained officer who commits a terrible fault advances the agenda of the anti gun, anti law enforcement group and a handgun that is more difficult to use, combined with less effective training accomplishes just that. More chaos.

 

[kbm6893]

Kbm was posting about his negligent discharges a few months ago. I never asked him how many people he negligently justifiably shot. Now I'm curious.

Discharge. Singular. I forgot the mag was in the gun and chambered a round and fired it. And before Cmort can jump in, no, the heavy trigger did not prevent me from firing that shot, because I meant to pull the trigger.

Tons of police departments have gone to heavier triggers to reduce the possibility of ND's. He keeps inferring that the heavier trigger was invented to prevent all ND's. He repeats that because it proves his rediculous point. Heavier triggers reduce ND's. I surely have rested my finger on a trigger when I believed I might have to shoot. But I didn't. And the heavier trigger played a part.

Now Cmort is gonna chime in with his expertise, even though he has none. And he's the only one here who thinks of a slightly heavier trigger as a "trendy gadget". Although I'm sure he has every option known to man on his Glock. Like a 3.5 pound trigger because he needs all the help he can get to hit the target.

 

[kbm6893]

I personally veel that the powers that be in NYNY want the police to be poorly trained and less able to use handguns. Every untrained officer who commits a terrible fault advances the agenda of the anti gun, anti law enforcement group and a handgun that is more difficult to use, combined with less effective training accomplishes just that. More chaos.

NY is certainly not the only state to have heavier triggers on cop guns. Wouldn't surprise me at all if Texas did, too.

Ah, the anonymity of an Internet gun forum! A place where pimply faced kids can pretend to be Navy SEAL's and people with zero actual defensive gun use can pretend to be experts!

 

[cmort666]

I personally veel that the powers that be in NYNY want the police to be poorly trained and less able to use handguns. Every untrained officer who commits a terrible fault advances the agenda of the anti gun, anti law enforcement group and a handgun that is more difficult to use, combined with less effective training accomplishes just that. More chaos.

I just think they're cheap, incompetent, corrupt ******** who don't give a damn about citizens OR cops.

 

[cmort666]

Ah, the anonymity of an Internet gun forum! A place where pimply faced kids can pretend to be Navy SEAL's and people with zero actual defensive gun use can pretend to be experts!

I'm going to go out on a limb and surmise that your birth certificate doesn't say "kbm6893".

The internet is also a place where people can advocate foolish behavior without consequences, like the kid in usenet who used to always advocate the carrying of a FAKE "gun" for "self-defense".

 

[Wise_A]

You've got to remember that decisions like this are usually made by administrators far removed from the training range. Nobody asks the departmental armorer what's best when they make the order for X,000 pistols.

And really, there's a strong pull to seek out equipment that reduces the amount of training required. You have to pay people to go to the range, pay for the range (indoor ranges that meet modern standards are hideously expensive to build and maintain), pay for rangemasters and instructors, and then pay for the ammo. On top of that, you have to pay for departmental armorers (assuming you don't contract it out), spare parts, spare magazines, and so on.

On top of that, you have to select a firearm and chambering that won't have a disparate impact on female or small-of-stature male officers. Not everyone can carry a full-size 1911 and comfortably ride in a car with it. And by the time you get to the shooting portion of training, departments that pay for recruits to go to the academy have already invested a lot of money in each person. It's a big waste if they can't pass shooting quals.

So it's a position that's not totally without merit--having an easy-to-use pistol that fits many different shooters. The problem is when it's applied by people that really don't have the best grasp on the situation.

True story: Back in the day, it was common for departments to reward top-scoring academy recruits by issuing them or allowing them to carry jazzed-up versions of the standard issue weapon. Different barrels, finishes, grips, adjustable sights, and so on.

 

[kbm6893]

You've got to remember that decisions like this are usually made by administrators far removed from the training range. Nobody asks the departmental armorer what's best when they make the order for X,000 pistols.

And really, there's a strong pull to seek out equipment that reduces the amount of training required. You have to pay people to go to the range, pay for the range (indoor ranges that meet modern standards are hideously expensive to build and maintain), pay for rangemasters and instructors, and then pay for the ammo. On top of that, you have to pay for departmental armorers (assuming you don't contract it out), spare parts, spare magazines, and so on.

On top of that, you have to select a firearm and chambering that won't have a disparate impact on female or small-of-stature male officers. Not everyone can carry a full-size 1911 and comfortably ride in a car with it. And by the time you get to the shooting portion of training, departments that pay for recruits to go to the academy have already invested a lot of money in each person. It's a big waste if they can't pass shooting quals.

So it's a position that's not totally without merit--having an easy-to-use pistol that fits many different shooters. The problem is when it's applied by people that really don't have the best grasp on the situation.

True story: Back in the day, it was common for departments to reward top-scoring academy recruits by issuing them or allowing them to carry jazzed-up versions of the standard issue weapon. Different barrels, finishes, grips, adjustable sights, and so on.

The NYPD used to award an off duty revolver to the highest scoring recruit in the class. Engraved the award and date of award on it, and it was presented to the graduating recruit by the commissioner. Most guys got another off duty and just saved the awarded one. That's what I would have done.

 

[cmort666]

And he's the only one here who thinks of a slightly heavier trigger as a "trendy gadget". Although I'm sure he has every option known to man on his Glock. Like a 3.5 pound trigger because he needs all the help he can get to hit the target.

Only an accountant for the City of Chicago would think that 12.0 is "slightly" more than 3.5.

Clearly YOUR "expertise" doesn't extend to simple mathematics...

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

One of the advantages of C*** revolvers is that the DA trigger stacks, which is to say that the trigger pull increases before letoff, unlike the S&W, which lets off as a surprise. This makes the S&W potentially easier to shoot accurately on a paper target, and easier to discharge accidentally when holding on a human target upon whom you are legally entitled to hold, if in fact such a hypothetical case exists in the world.

This means that I claim to have not only cited on this thread a [hypothetical] case where a heavy trigger is better, I have also cited on this forum a case where a C*** revolver is a better police revolver than a S&W.

Does this qualify me as a troll?

 

[cmort666]

One of the advantages of C*** revolvers is that the DA trigger stacks, which is to say that the trigger pull increases before letoff, unlike the S&W, which lets off as a surprise. This makes the S&W potentially easier to shoot accurately on a paper target, and easier to discharge accidentally when holding on a human target upon whom you are legally entitled to hold, if in fact such a hypothetical case exists in the world.

This means that I claim to have not only cited on this thread a [hypothetical] case where a heavy trigger is better, I have also cited on this forum a case where a C*** revolver is a better police revolver than a S&W.

Currently I only have one Colt revolver, a New Service on which the trigger stacks like Jenga. I certainly wouldn't consider it AS easy to shoot as my N frame Smiths, never mind EASIER.

There were target versions made, but I certainly wouldn't prefer one in a match to a Smith. The SA on the other hand is wonderful.

Does this qualify me as a troll?

In the troll world, you just ain't got game!

 

[kbm6893]

Only an accountant for the City of Chicago would think that 12.0 is "slightly" more than 3.5.

Clearly YOUR "expertise" doesn't extend to simple mathematics...

But the 3.5 pound trigger isn't standard. It was meant for sport use. And I never had a shred of trouble attaining combat accuracy out of my NYPD Glock. And I didn't feel thst much of s difference in my standard 26.

You use a heavier trigger to make excuses for your mediocre skills. I bet the cop who shot that beretta 96 handled it just fine.

Come back when you have actually drawn a pistol on a person and prepared to shoot. Until then, you're just a wanna be with delusions of grandeur.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Currently I only have one Colt revolver, a New Service on which the trigger stacks like Jenga. I certainly wouldn't consider it AS easy to shoot as my N frame Smiths, never mind EASIER.

There were target versions made, but I certainly wouldn't prefer one in a match to a Smith. The SA on the other hand is wonderful.


In the troll world, you just ain't got game!

Sorry. I tried.

I have a DS, a Cobra and an Agent, and two OPs. The DS and the Agent are bobbed and SA removed, and the Agent didn't seem all that accurate even before the operation, nor the Cobra even without one. But I do feel a little more comfortable in certain respects when carrying one, although for MY circumstances, I am also perfectly happy with an S&W, particularly a snubby 15 (Improved Model 56), bobbed, of course.

As you have possibly noticed, I tend to post "likes" quite a bit on both you and kbm6893. I have a certain amount of difficulty in perceiving the disagreement between you two on the issue (?) under discussion. Best I can tell he sees some utility in a heavy trigger pull, you don't. My genetics and experience might make me think that I could get into the argument on a conceptual basis, but my natural inclination and blood-alcohol level point elsewhere.

On a practical level, do you really think that your differences amount to much?

 

[Old TexMex]

Just as an aside, Lubbock, Texas has gone away from a SIG to Glock, but with factory ( not NY heavy) trigger. Reason, DAO trigger was too difficult to use.
viz:
ERROR: The requested URL could not be retrieved

(The link works)

 

[cmort666]

But the 3.5 pound trigger isn't standard. It was meant for sport use. And I never had a shred of trouble attaining combat accuracy out of my NYPD Glock. And I didn't feel thst much of s difference in my standard 26.

Only an accountant for the Clinton Foundation would consider 12.0 to be "slightly" bigger than 5.5.

You use a heavier trigger to make excuses for your mediocre skills.

You use a ludicrously heavy "NY trigger" as a crutch for poor gun handling skills.

I bet the cop who shot that beretta 96 handled it just fine.

Actually he thought it sucked too.

Come back when you have actually drawn a pistol on a person and prepared to shoot. Until then, you're just a wanna be with delusions of grandeur.

Should I pick somebody at random? Or just shoot blindly in a stairwell?

I've pointed an HK-93 at a person and prepared to shoot. At that point, he decided to stop trying to run us off the road and instead see just how fast his Datsun 310 could go.

 

[cmort666]

I have a DS, a Cobra and an Agent, and two OPs. The DS and the Agent are bobbed and SA removed, and the Agent didn't seem all that accurate even before the operation, nor the Cobra even without one. But I do feel a little more comfortable in certain respects when carrying one, although for MY circumstances, I am also perfectly happy with an S&W, particularly a snubby 15 (Improved Model 56), bobbed, of course.

I used to have an Official Police when I was in the Army in the '80s. I liked it but traded it for something else in which I had more interest at the time. It was no big deal. It's not like Colt was going to stop making revolvers...

On a practical level, do you really think that your differences amount to much?

I don't care if somebody wants to use a 12lb. or a 120lb. trigger. I'm never going to use such a nonsensical thing. I just ask:

1. that they be honest about the reason and not make up excuses and "ripping yarns" to justify what's usually a fear of their own firearm.
2. that they not shoot innocent people with that handicapped firearm.

 

[shawn mccarver]

Remember that ANYTHING that pulls the trigger will cause a discharge. That means your finger, a string, a jacket pull, an ink pen, a lipstick, a key ring, etc. You get the picture.

Think outside the box. It is NOT just a careless finger that can cause a discharge.

This is applicable to revolvers as well. While the trigger pull weight required to do the job is heavier, the concept is the same.

Don't pull the trigger, and don't anything else to do so, and you will be ok.

Oh, and don't modify the gun. Period.

 

[Navyvbss]

I'll bite, what was your job?

I was an electronics tech. Main focus was comms gear set up/use along with operating biometrics gear

 

[wsr]

I was an electronics tech. Main focus was comms gear set up/use along with operating biometrics gear

That doesn't really square with this statement

I appreciate all your comments, and for the few that said my navy training was like cattle herding you are right but the training i got in the navy was a bit more extensive then the average navy sailor lol, i can easily say i was trained by the best of the best and it wasnt at a navy base or on a ship lol, mine was a more specified and deliberately indepth training with wespons. So my technique and operational exerience with guns is pretty extensive if not almost expert but it was never with a striker fire pistol