How to start a collection

[bcr22]

One of my dreams is to own a Triple Lock. I don't care about collecting for the sake of collecting, I love the guns and I feel morally obligated to shoot them. So, for instance, I don't care if the gun has been refinished. That pretty much ruins its collector value but it would be a nice gun to own and shoot. This week I saw a triple lock that had been factory reblued go for ~$1450 on gunbroker. It was in fine condition otherwise and I thought it was a great deal. I would like to start picking up revolvers like that here and there.

But how do you guys go about buying these revolvers and knowing you're getting a decent deal? I've never seen a Triple Lock in an LGS, so it seems my only options are online auctions or sales. But then I don't get to inspect the gun. Is there a responsible way to collect using gunbroker?

I'm thinking I'd like to get a Triple Lock, 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th model 44s, a 1917, a 38/44, etc. These are all beautiful guns that would be fun to shoot.

 

[SDH]

First, buy and read all the books starting with the Neal & Jinks S&W 1857-1945, especially if you enjoy guns of that era.
Only buy guns with a 3-5 day inspection period and always go through an FFL so you can return it if its not right. Join the S&WCA and, if you can attend the annual show, this year in Spokane.

 

[gjamison]

I started collecting S&W revolvers about 20 years ago. After several year people get to know who you are and what you like to buy. Your name and contact information gets around and the phone starts ringing, LGS calls me every time he gets in an interesting gun, same thing happens at the gun shows.

It's always good to return the favor, if I'm not interested in a gun, then I most likely know someone that will be.

 

[hjdca]

I like Gunbroker, I have never been disappointed in the gun, only in the price I had to pay.. Gunbroker is like Ebay. The reputable dealers with lots of positive feedback that say, "Finish: Original Blue" or refinished at the factory, and have lots of well done pictures, etc... are trustworthy , honest, and knowledgable. You will find out that these are the dealers and guns that get lots of bids and you will have to pay market value. For example, I just bought 3 original finish S&W C&R guns from the same dealer on Gunbroker without a worry, but, I had to pay more than I wanted to on all three revolvers. I never look to get a "great deal" on gunbroker from a random seller with fuzzy pictures. I follow the philosophy that if it looks to good to be true, it is not true. Personally, I look for original finish guns that I shoot. If the seller does not list the finish as original, then, I assume it is a refinish unless the seller can email me something that makes me comfortable that the finish is original.

Note: on refinished guns, you can never tell how much they have been shot by looking at the recoil shield, therefore, you cannot assume the timing is good unless it is checked out...

 

[The Gila Bender]

But how do you guys go about buying these revolvers and knowing you're getting a decent deal?
... Triple Lock, 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th model 44s, a 1917, a 38/44, etc.

You have good taste, my friend.

For over a decade my entire S&W collection was a 640-1 for concealed carry, a used 29-6 Classic 6.5", and a 6.5" pre-27 shooter from the estate of a well-known dealer. My "collecting" interest started after buying a copy of the Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson and reading "Sixguns" by Elmer Keith. I studied the pre-27 and realized that I had something special - a set of Coke bottle stocks. From then on, about 2007 or so, I was all about prewar, transition, and pre-model N-frames. But I had the same questions that you do.

I visited gunshops, pawn shops, and gunshows, talked to a few gunsmiths, looked at online auctions and read forum discussions about the models I was interested in, and began participating in this forum. I joined S&WCA and went to the Tucson symposium. I reached out to individuals and dealers and let my interests be known. I asked for help and got it - in abundance.

My collection is shooters mostly, because that's what I can afford. But along the way came a few nice collectibles with all the goodies. Once in a blue moon I'll find a real gem in the weeds of the local online classifieds. Mostly I rely on this forum, a few good dealers, gone-broker and a couple other sites (for price research), and a personal network of like-minded enthusiasts. In my circle I'm the "Smith & Wesson guy". Though I'm no expert and certainly not a gunsmith, I'm pretty good at vetting and research. I just know a lot of people who know these things, I guess.

I look for original and correct first, then mechanical function, then wear. Then I consider the age and relative scarcity. "A decent deal" is a relative term. If it's somewhat rare, like a transition 4" 44HE 3rd Model, or a pre-21, and I need/want it for the collection, then the price is driven by scarcity, condition, originality, and documentation such as a historical letter or provenance. A more common example, such as a prewar HD, 1917, or 44HE 2nd Military can be a "decent deal" if it's original condition with honest wear, and intended/bought as a shooter.

My collection is OD's/HD's and .44HE's for the most part (2nd, 3rd, 4th, and a Model 21). Triplelocks are somewhat new to me. I have two, a .455 Military and a Target. Both are refinished, the .455 is now nickel (and pretty decent), and the Target is a factory refin with a few mechanical mods (early 1950's-ish) for serious target shooting. They aren't original, but both are somewhat rare (I don't see them very often) and both fit the context of my collection of shooters. Both were bought after consulting with dealers who know Triplelocks. They weren't cheap but were certainly a "decent deal".

Two other examples: A .44HE 3rd 5" transition, what finish remains is now plum, lots of external wear and chinks in the cylinder, and a ring in the barrel (not externally visible). BUT with original matching magnas in rough shape. I bought it relatively cheap, had my 'smith go through it, and DWFAN restored the stocks. It's now a favorite shooter and quite a conversation piece. To me it was a "decent deal", to a collector, probably not. The final example is a 1951 pre-23 Outdoorsman, original condition, matching stocks, next to no wear, a time capsule and superb example of the craft of that period. But the barrel is bulged just behind the lazy "&". Zero collector value but still all original in otherwise good cosmetic condition. I bought it cheap, sent it to my guy, and it's as accurate as any OD you'll find anywhere. That was a "decent deal" in my book too.

Good luck, learn all you can, and jump in with both feet!


Some nice old shooters.

 

[tlay]

Don't ask me, I have no clue! At first I just owned a few newer Smiths that I used for concealed carry. Then I found this sight!! That's when things went crazy. At first I wanted only K frame guns. Then I found a pre27 3 1/2" nickel gun and had to have it. Then it was a 5" pre27. Then a pre-war 38/44 outdoorsman, then,then,then!!!! By the time the smoke cleared I was the proud owner of everything between a 32 single action, many top breaks, N frames, K frames, I frames, J Frames and everything else. Now I am over 50 guns. Like I said don't ask me!!!

 

[RKmesa]

How to start a collection

...Just keep buying one or two S&W's at a time and next thing you know, you will be investing in more safe space...

On a serious note, you've been given some good advice above. But, any of us who have collected for very long know that your learning "how" will involve making some mistakes (overpaying for a gun). But on the other side, sometimes you'll get lucky and score a great deal. Collect long enough and it will average out.

 

[Old TexMex]

Welcome, there is nothing I can add beyond that which others have said, except offer a compliment on your taste in revolvers.

One more of us, one less of "them"

 

[S&W ucla]

In a triple-lock, usually the lowest price is one of the British .455's. The quality is there and Fiocchi .455mkII's can be found. It's really a fun gun to shoot. Plus it's a piece of WW1 history. I would try and stick with original finish, to me 50% original is better than 100% reblue. You have a great trophy list to hunt! It's cheaper to get your education first, then start buying. Good luck and be sure to post pics when you get one!

 

[shawn mccarver]

If you want to be sure of what you are getting, a great place to start is David Carroll. He will not knowingly misrepresent a gun. Ever. Enough said. Tell him what you are looking for, and he will let you know if he finds one.

EDIT: Disclaimer - There are others equally honest, but I have had the most experience with David. So, I do not mean to imply by mentioning David that others are not honest.

 

[05CarbonDRZ]

I am in the Camp that a Factory Reblue should not "ruin" the collectibility of a Gun.

 

[Engineer1911]

How to start collecting S&W revolvers

Step 1. Have a bag of money.

St The other steps aren't important.

 

[iskra]

Big picture remarks I’d share with a new collector. Such from whatever stripes over five decades of gun collecting might accord...

First, congratulations if you’ve identified a penchant for gun collecting going into the “hobby” (and using that term advisedly). Many if not most gun collectors backed into that realization as a fact before the 'moment' of self-perception occurred. Such was my situation and actually nothing wrong with that. But if an intent collector, better the early-on opportunity to view collecting as a true investment. That as well as making collecting decisions from such informed perspective right off the bat.

First and most important to know what you’re buying. An obvious truism. Yet the biggest mistake of novices (and sometimes seasoned veterans) is becoming the receptacle of ‘trash guns’ and learning the hard, read that as expensive, way. That alleged 'fleeting bargain' might well get away. But statistically, most shops and gun show vendors really do know their wares. They've presumably had ample time to research. The buyer typically not. There the ‘rube factor' considerably outweighs the probability of the occasional overlooked gem in the wild.

Flyers should be confined to the ‘throw down’ end of disposable money spectrum and the realization of playing considerably against the odds. Stepping back for even a bit of research can save coins and consternation! Nowadays, such as a wealth of even online gun information/literature and forums such as here, offer substantial expertise. Such are true assets. Yet only when employed and hopefully prospectively rather than ‘ex post facto’!

A collecting spectrum dilemma. I have my share ‘nice old shooters’. Most of them I would have bought in any case and those number I’ve retained, I particularly enjoy owning. But in the purchase decision, too often I didn’t weigh the alternative of five or so nice old shooters, for instance, to one really nice collector gun. My retained shooters have appreciated somewhat better than inflation. The true collector guns have, across the board, appreciated quite considerably more!

Fortunately early on for me, I generally began to prefer originality and condition and accorded a corresponding priority. Still, I never tried for the 100% ‘cream puffs’, often at considerable to multiple premiums. Just to focus on nice 90% or better original guns at decent prices. Sometimes happily also the category of ‘near misses’, restorable to essentially original (such as replacing aftermarket/incorrect stocks).

Now, in retrospect, I particularly appreciate my (actually inadvertent) originality/condition decision and the panorama of a quite decent if perhaps eclectic potpourri collection. Moreover reflecting some diversity of collecting interests and proportionately expanded ‘opportunity’ purchases such as among some nice Winchester and other rifles.

Never to suggest a ‘hobby killer’ and likely the drudgery of strictly an investment outlook. That’s essentially called a “business”. Just the early on realization that a hobby can also happily be the nucleus of a good investment tool. Regardless of whether it does or should change the buying habits or future collection direction is another and very personal question. Just to suggest recognizing the fact of investment potential in some guns and to make informed buying/collection decisions empowered with that realization.

This, my advice and…
My take.

 

[H Richard]

You acquire what you "like". You have stated your preferences, so that is what you should look toward. As time goes by, you will probably expand those area's. Buy quality, and don't be afraid to shoot them, if you have a desire to do so.

 

[The Gila Bender]

Reading ISKRA's (post #13) several times he make several good points. The take-aways:

1. "If an intent collector, better the early-on opportunity to view collecting as a true investment. That as well as making collecting decisions from such informed perspective right off the bat."

2. "Flyers should be confined to the ‘throw down’ end of disposable money spectrum and the realization of playing considerably against the odds. Stepping back for even a bit of research can save coins and consternation! "

3. "I have my share of ‘nice old shooters’... My retained shooters have appreciated somewhat better than inflation. The true collector guns have, across the board, appreciated quite considerably more! "

4. "I generally began to prefer originality and condition.... Now, in retrospect, I particularly appreciate my (actually inadvertent) originality/condition decision and the panorama of a quite decent if perhaps eclectic potpourri collection."

5. "… a hobby can also happily be the nucleus of a good investment tool."

Good advice, most of which I have learned and followed.
I'm a hobbyist and accumulator, with a collecting focus, have a fair number of "flyers" that were impulse buys, unique items, rescue projects, trade fodder, and just plain mistakes. Originality and condition are first considerations, followed by relative availability, and whether or not it fits within the accumulation. Factory refinished is not a sin, and a decent refin on a rare gun might be acceptable. I'm still learning about TL's. I'm happy with my shooters and with my collectibles. I don't buy for investment, typically, and tend to buy what I like. I have, as ISKRA might say, "... a quite decent if perhaps eclectic potpourri collection."


Collectible, unique, scarce.