How tough is the 686 Plus?

One solution might be a 586+ (which I'm wearing as I write this). Originally, these 686's beefed up a bit including at the forcing cone and top strap specifically for durability with hot loads. Whether or not these differences were subsequently employed on the 686's I do not know.

Below in black is a 586+ (7 round) with 3" compensated barrel. The full lug is nice for recoil management. Next to the 586+ is an 8-Round N Frame 627 at 2.625" barrel - that N Frame of course can sure take the abuse as well.

Down side is they both will run just North of $1,000
 

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I have heard this explanation before also.
[...]
I'll listen to what others have to say.

Snowman, combustion gases are moving much faster than the bullet possibly can. It's not so difficult to imagine that they can easily get past the bullet before the bearing surface contacts the tighter chamber throat. Also, don't forget that throat size can vary slightly even within the same cylinder despite S&W's best intentions. Add to that the fact that the jacketed 125s that are the culprit IMO are nominally .357 but can vary slightly in practice. Another variable that is difficult to account for is the fact that overall lengths vary from one bullet design to the next for any given weight, so you can't really go by weight alone even if weight is a good general indicator of size. The real question is precisely how far any given bullet (of a specific weight/shape) has to move for combustion gases to get past it and how far it has to travel before sealing off those gases. Factor in the burn rate of the powder and it gets complicated. Your guess is as good as anyone's. So by all means, follow your conscience, your own observations, and the advice of people you trust.

But as far as I am aware the issue of K-frame durability did not surface until police departments started practicing with their very hot 125 grain carry loads and the shooting public – always eager to have whatever bullet law enforcement is using – followed suit. And it can hardly be said that popular magnum loads with heavy bullets were weak for the preceding 50 years.
 
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Some excellent information guys, thank you so very much. Thanks for the pictures, too. Any doubts that I was entertaining about a Smith being weaker than the Ruger have been eliminated. I was unaware that the L frames were designed specifically to deal with the issue that I had heard about. I'm excited about my upcoming purchase. I've owned pretty much one of everything, but this will be my first S&W revolver.

Thanks again guys. Keep the information coming if there's anything more to add.

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On a personal note, many people seem to be using the snub 686 as an EDC. Don't know how they manage it; yeah, i know all about proper holster and belt. It's still heavy.

I use my 2.5" 686+ for my bedside gun. Carrying it is fine in the field, I have done it more than a few times, but I wasn't concerned about concealment. If I weighed 70 pounds less (okay, that's pushing it, but 45 would be nice) I think that I COULD carry the 686+ concealed far more easily than on my presently overweight frame but that's a YMMV thing. I have all of the proper carrying equipment for the 686+ but, interestingly, the easiest way to carry it is in a Galco shoulder rig. The hip holster work, as noted I have done it, but the shoulder rig REALLY works. But it's not set up for speed.

TYPO -


I was unaware that the N frames were designed specifically to deal with the issue that I had heard about.
Your 686+ is an L frame, not N.

I'm giving the first poster a typo demerit on that one, not an error! :)
 
Snowman, combustion gases are moving much faster than the bullet possibly can. It's not so difficult to imagine that they can easily get past the bullet before the bearing surface contacts the tighter chamber throat. Also, don't forget that throat size can vary slightly even within the same cylinder despite S&W's best intentions. Add to that the fact that the jacketed 125s that are the culprit IMO are nominally .357 but can vary slightly in practice. Another variable that is difficult to account for is the fact that overall lengths vary from one bullet design to the next for any given weight, so you can't really go by weight alone even if weight is a good general indicator of size. The real question is precisely how far any given bullet (of a specific weight/shape) has to move for combustion gases to get past it and how far it has to travel before sealing off those gases. Factor in the burn rate of the powder and it gets complicated. Your guess is as good as anyone's. So by all means, follow your conscience, your own observations, and the advice of people you trust.

Hello, SeamasterSig. Thanks for the response. And before I forget, I respect you for continuing to use magnums in your 66 in spite of the steady drumbeat of voices who counsel against it. That has always seemed to be an extreme view, to me.

The view re the problem with 125s which I posted here was one I read on this forum a few years ago. It was expounded by one of the more knowledgeable fellows here -maybe one of the gunsmiths(I'm sorry that I can't remember who it was.). Though others before and after have echoed its general principle; i.e. "slow-burning powders and lightweight bullets", he was the only one I've seen who posted graphs of pressure curves according to burn rate, and articulated the theory in greater detail than others have. And so I am getting the view from someone else here.

There is a question or two in my mind re the view you've explained that perhaps you can address if and when you're able. I'm understanding the basic principle: With a shorter bullet, more of the burning gas gets around the bullet before it seals in the chamber throat than is the case with a longer bullet. But here is what I don't understand, and I'll do my best to accurately express it: How does the burning gas which escapes the chamber throat into the barrel AHEAD of the shorter bullet put more wear on the gun than the pressurized burning gas which fills the barrel BEHIND the bullet(regardless of the bullet's length/weight)? Do you see what I mean? The gas which escapes the chamber ahead of the bullet also escapes the pressure created by having to push the bullet through chamber and gun, does it not? If so, then there is little pressure to force it out the B/C gap, which, as I understand things, is what accelerates the wear and tear on the K-frame forcing cone; i.e. an increased amount of gas at increased pressures shooting out the gap.

Anyway, don't feel that I'm demanding an answer, or am being contentious; neither of those is true. I'm just a mechanically-inclined fellow with an inquisitive mind.

Best regards,
Andy
 
others before and after have echoed its general principle; i.e. "slow-burning powders and lightweight bullets"

Slower burning powders combined with lighter bullets seem to be the culprit. The issue doesn't surface at all with 38 special, where a wide range of bullet weights is combined almost exclusively with faster burning powders, albeit at lower pressure/volumes. Nor were cracked forcing cones widely reported "back in the day" when magnum loads as I understand it tended to be hot and heavy. Was it simply that most people obediently practiced exclusively with 38 special and only occasionally shot 357 magnum? I doubt it.

Older editions of reloading manuals famously included max charge powder volumes far in excess of current SAAMI specs and many reloaders complain about the weak recipes typically found in current editions. Ammunition commercially available today is also generally weak compared to the legendary loads of yesteryear. In addition, I'm pretty certain that people shot more cast bullets back then (which normally feature a diameter that is a couple thou over the nominal caliber size and probably do a better job of sealing the chamber throat/barrel). Cylinder timing is probably a major factor, too. If the timing is off, the bullet will be striking the forcing cone off-center, exacerbating the problem. Timing can be easily fixed by a gunsmith (as can end shake), but how many people bother to check it semi-regularly? Also, how many introduce timing issues by modifying the trigger pull? The more I think about it, people shooting their revolvers loose without proper and timely maintenance is probably a major factor contributing to cracked forcing cones on K-frames. It might well be that the forcing cones on L and N-frames are simply robust enough to handle that sort of abuse.

Even back in the 70s/80s when the issue first arose, there wasn't exactly an epidemic of cracked forcing cones. While the issue is no doubt real, I get the sense that people make a bigger deal of it than necessary (much like worrying about the dreaded internal lock possibly engaging at the wrong moment). Regardless, whatever the exact combination of factors causing premature wear and tear of K-frames is, flame-throwing 125 grain magnum JHPs seem to be at the center of it. And it's easy enough to avoid them. The theory of combusting gases getting ahead of short bullets may seem improbable, but it is still the most plausible explanation I've heard so far (other than my thoughts on timing). The idea that S&W stubbornly manufactured inherently weak magnum revolvers for decades seems even more improbable. While I may not intend to baby my 66-2, I honestly don't think the volume of 158+ grain cast bullets that I normally shoot at velocities of around 1000 to 1200 fps is all that punishing – for me or the revolver. I expect that I'll add an L-frame to my small collection long before I wear out my K-frame. Not so much out of concern for my beloved 66-2 as a desire to own a 3" 686.

How does the burning gas which escapes the chamber throat into the barrel AHEAD of the shorter bullet put more wear on the gun than the pressurized burning gas which fills the barrel BEHIND the bullet(regardless of the bullet's length/weight)?

It's my understanding that the magic combination is super hot gases heating the barrel, followed or coincided by the bullet slamming into the forcing cone. I don't think the fact that the combusting gas behind the bullet are under pressure until the bullet exits the barrel matters much. Otherwise you'd see such excessive wear and tear the whole length of the barrel – especially in pistols, which lack a comparable B/C gap as a sort of pressure relief valve. Although you're probably on to something with the gas escaping through the B/C gap. The gap in my two magnum revolvers happens to be very tight with very little end shake. Clearly, the wider the gap/greater the shake, the more gas escapes, heating up not just the interior surface of the barrel, but the outer surface and face of the forcing cone as well, which surely exacerbates the problem.

For what it's worth, I wouldn't blame anyone for babying their K-frame. Especially considering that S&W no longer has any of the older barrels around for replacement should the forcing cone crack. S&W may not make them like it used to, but at least it made them in large numbers. My 66-2 is a classic, second in my mind only to the legendary 1911 as the quintessential American handgun. But fortunately it's hardly rare.
 
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If properly maintained it's tough enough to outlast you, your kids and likely theirs. Buy it and shoot it!
 
IMHO --- While new to S&W revolvers I can only compare it in quality and toughness to a COLT 1911 , the 686 is a similar work horse that will long out last owner with proper care
 
Went to the gun show today to see if they had one of these. No luck. One table had the 6 round 2.5" for $689. It was very tempting to take it, but I managed to resist. I need that extra round. :P
 
Went to the gun show today to see if they had one of these. No luck. One table had the 6 round 2.5" for $689. It was very tempting to take it, but I managed to resist. I need that extra round. :P
I have both a 4 inch and a 3 inch ( 7 SHOT ) I now perfer the 3 inch and plan on putting the 4 inch up for sale on a local board with Hunting season starting
 
SeamasterSig: Thanks for taking the considerable time to reply to my post.

To the OP: Best wishes in your research and deliberations. I've found in my years of buying revolvers that there is a little bit of trial and error involved in spite of our efforts in practicing due diligence. I trust that you will find something that satisfies you. Oh, and I would definitely put your worries to rest about wearing out an L-frame prematurely with magnum loads -the odds of that happening are EXTREMELY low.

Regards,
Andy
 
I have both a 4 inch and a 3 inch ( 7 SHOT ) I now perfer the 3 inch and plan on putting the 4 inch up for sale on a local board with Hunting season starting

I'm leaning the opposite say. I've debated selling my 4" 686+ and picking up a 6". The 4" is much easier to tote around, but I'd be using the 6" for mostly shooting off sandbags. The longer sight radius is nice for targets.
 
Get a 3 1/2" model 27-2 (or earlier model) and you'll never have to worry about anything.
 
People make a deal......

People make a deal about the Plus model being beefier because of the hole placement on the cylinder. If you stick to published data my non-Plus model is plenty strong enough for the job. Now if you want to go out on a limb a little a Plus is in order, or maybe a Blackhawk.
 
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