"Hush Puppy" Rear Sight Wings & Update

[dvelleux]

Folks,

Attached to this post is a kinda crappy image of the revised rear sight wings for the Mark 22 Mod 0 pistol replica. While the windage hole may be slightly off, I do not wish to risk weakening the metal on the wings' rear edge...

Also, I spoke to a gunsmith near me who is willing to try to make the slide lock for this pistol. We will try making a 3-D printed prototype first, then try to do the slide lock from 4140 steel...

Keep the faith...

 

[dvelleux]

Folks,

In an effort to be as complete as possible, I want to start working on the blueprints for the detachable shoulder stock for the "hush Puppy." I have a few issues in doing that, since I use Microsoft VISIO 2007 as my drawing program, and it is NOT very user-friendly for drawing curve-linear lines, such as how the back-strap of the 39-2 curves to fit into the shooter's palm. Does anyone have any ideas on how to best overcome this obstacle without having to buy software that costs thousands of dollars?

Images of the "hush puppy" and stock are attached...

 

[BMCM]

Does anyone have any ideas on how to best overcome this obstacle without having to buy software that costs thousands of dollars?

Seems you have some pretty good pics there. You know I'd try simply scaling up an image of the stock until you get the right size 1:1 and start taking measurements right off the picture. It doesn't look like a terribly complex part to make. I'd think a precision bender like a small Diacro would handle the stock tubing, a mill to fab the rest and tig to put it together.

I often wing it, make a sketch on a old envelop or if I get really fancy, some graph paper, then start making chips.

If you're really set on a computer solution there are a lot of open source CAD programs out there that are pretty well regarded and often free.

Looks like a real neat project you have going on, I'm subscribing to this thread.

Cheers
Bill

 

[dvelleux]

Bill,

Do a search in the archives on my user name and you will find other threads on this subject...

 

[Hill_Country]

Seems like the stock attachment would be pretty simple. Just remove the backstrap and use it as a pattern.

As for a CAD program, I think there is a free trial version of Sketch up available, but even with this program which is advertised to be "simple" to learn, the learning curve will be long.

 

[BMCM]

Bill,

Do a search in the archives on my user name and you will find other threads on this subject...

Well I have no idea how I missed all that terrific stuff.

By the way...Did you get all the chamber and faux can plugs sorted out yet?

I use this stuff to make turn non-marring punches all the time.
Black Delrin® (more accurately termed acetal resin)

Machines easily and is very strong. It wouldn't take but a few minutes to turn a 9mm dummy round with a o-ring groove.

Cheers
Bill

 

[dvelleux]

Bill,

I bought a small set of 9mm snap caps I will have turned to make a pair into the barrel chamber plus. I already bought some vinyl tubing caps for the barrel muzzle cap. Still need to figure out a replica suppressor chamber cap...

Regarding the hardest item, the local gunsmith reported back to me in the affirmative that he can make the slide lock!!! We are going to make a 3-D prototype before making chips fly. He is starting to determine a price for it now...

The true rebirth of the "hush puppy" is coming up...

 

[kwill1911]

Hey! Glad to see this project back on track. I personally would make that shoulder stock my lowest priority. I think only a couple were ever made and they were not issued. The one you pictured is with an Airsoft gun, of course, and the holster is missing the mag pouch on the front of it. I think you've got the hardest problem solved, i.e. the sights. What progress have you made on a threaded barrel?

 

[dvelleux]

Kevin,

I have tried searching for a 5" barrel supplier, but the best solution seems to be an extension to lengthen the barrel to 5". That same gunsmith is now cutting back a barrel bushing, then he will silver solder it into a slide for me...

There are a few images form a Small Arms of the the World book with the shoulder stock. Also, I have not seen an image of the holster with a pouch for a spare mag on it, only one to hold the pistol with suppressor attached...

For my pistol, I have a spare backstrap I am going to have drilled and tapped for 1/4"-20, so it at least looks like it will accept a shoulder stock. Once my pistol is done, I am going to make an engraved walnut presentation box for the pistol and an "accessory kit" in the box. Should be cool to see...

 

[dvelleux]

Folks,

BMCM (Bill) has joined the team to recreate the chamber plugs for the faux suppressor and the barrel chamber. I am certain he will do well...

 

[Racer X]

This whole project fascinates me. I have a shooting coach who was in the "Teams" in the '90s, and they still had some in the armory in Virginia.

 

[kwill1911]

Here is one of the refill kits:

I just have a few odds and ends but if you want to recreate the wipes I can give you measurements.

 

[dvelleux]

Kevin,

Thanks for the offer, but the way our current government is functioning, even possessing a wipe may be grounds for taking away one's Second Amendment right!

I think if you can create a drawing with the measurements of the barrel chamber plugs, that would be a huge help for Bill to be accurate. With your vast connections, do you know anyone who has the chamber plug for the suppressor to reverse engineer?

 

[kwill1911]

Actually my photo shows a magazine, a muzzle plug, a barrel cap and a chamber plug. I don't have the back end cap plug. Is that what you mean by the chamber plug for the suppressor?

 

[dvelleux]

Kevin,

Yes, the plug for the threaded end of the suppressor with a lanyard...

 

[dvelleux]

Folks,

Just spoke with the gunsmith a bit ago. He came up with a great idea that will actually IMPROVE the slide lock above what S&W did on the originals. He suggested using a "D-hole" for where the pivot pin connects both sides of the slide lock. A "D-hole" is like a circle, but with a flattened spot on one side, thus if a matching "D-hole" is created on both sides of the slide lock, then both sides act in sync with each other...

Additionally, BMCM has already created a FANTASTIC copy of the chamber plug. Please review the attached images, but I think we already have a winner!!!

 

[dvelleux]

Folks,


Merry Christmas to all on this forum and their families. May the peace of the season be upon you all...


I am hoping a lawyer will see this and chime in. No, not regarding my first statement, but whatever...

With regard to the faux Mark 3 suppressor, I would like to know if we duplicated the muzzle plug, would inserting it into a recess on the faux can' muzzle be considered like the muzzle cap for the M16 rifle, or do we have to deal with a whole new ballgame?

I feel since the muzzle plug would be merely inserted into its recess to keep water out, much like the M16 muzzle cap, the ATF would not care. HOWEVER, due to the "interesting times" in which we live, what would the muzzle plug be considered?

Please feel free to respond...

 

[BMCM]

The best option is to write a letter to the ATF firearms technology branch and get a ruling from them in writing. Anything else is akin to playing with fffire ie. federal firearms felony.

Contact info is here https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-and-ammunition-technology

You'll need to explain exactly what your are trying to accomplish and attach the prints. Answering inquiries just like this is what their job is. Basically you'd be asking for the ATF to rule that your faux can design is in fact not a suppressor under current law. Without the ruling in place you can still conceivably get in a bind. Even without the plastic muzzle plug in place the faux can may still be deemed a suppressor by an LE officer and seized and then sent the the aforementioned Firearms Technology Branch for legal determination.

Once you have the ruling in writing, assuming it is in your favor, You would keep a copy with the "Hush Puppy" set anytime you take it out to play so you have documentation that everything is legal in the event of an inquiry by local LE.

Merry Christmas
Cheers
Bill

 

[BMCM]

One of my reference bookmarks is this repository of ATF legal rulings. You'll see here the wide range of tech issues the ATF issues rulings on.
Law and legal opinions

Cheers
Bill

BTW, I seem to recall there being some legal issues with attaching a shoulder stock to a pistol as well. When writing or call the ATF you might inquire about that too.

 

[Racer X]

One of my reference bookmarks is this repository of ATF legal rulings. You'll see here the wide range of tech issues the ATF issues rulings on.
Law and legal opinions

Cheers
Bill

BTW, I seem to recall there being some legal issues with attaching a shoulder stock to a pistol as well. When writing or call the ATF you might inquire about that too.

Good idea. My former next door neighbor has a full WW I era civilian .30 Luger kit complete with 32 round drum, shoulder stock and shoulder holster kit. It has a case, and includes the original receipt from 1918 when it was purchased from a big sporting goods outfitter in Germany, and brought back to the States. Along with it is a letter from 1973 from the ATF ruling that his kit is exempt from the shoulder stock ban since it predates the ban, and was in the states prior to the ban. Grandfathered through.

You can purchase the replica black powder long barreled revolvers with detacheable stocks because black powder firearms are exempt from the law.

 

[dvelleux]

Bill,

I sent an email with all the needed reference files off to the ATF just a moment ago. I made a very thorough explanation of what everything is, and the attached images show everything is as I stated it to be...

Now we sit and wait...

 

[dvelleux]

Folks,

I have been having some chats and doing some reading offline about the shoulder stocks. Seems very few were made and fewer were used in the field. In reading from a book by Kevin Dockery, he stated a few SEALs merely attached the pistol to a lanyard and slip the lanyard over their necks...

So should I even attempt to make drawing for the shoulder stock at this time?

 

[dvelleux]

Folks,

My, how our government works at times. Heard back from ATF regarding the faux suppressor; they want to see a physical copy BEFORE they make a ruling. Okay then, may be a short wait until I can save the funds to do so. I know of at least one existing faux can, but I would never ask a person to potentially lose something as the ATF examines it. So, we wait a bit, but everything else is still ongoing...

 

[BMCM]

Ask then if a prototype model at 1:1 scale made of composite material would suffice to make a determination. I imagine something could be whipped up quite cheaply. Looking at your drawing, it appears the "can" is nothing more than a chunk of pipe. No baffles, no liner, essentially a barrel extension so I don't see any reason a detail model wouldn't do unless of course the ATF wants to conduct live fire testing and measure decibels

Cheers
Bill

 

[dvelleux]

Bill,

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

We can discuss that offline, but I think a 1:1 model, with the recess in the front, would fill the bill. Just tell them this is a prototype and the real item will be of aluminum for strength...

 

[dvelleux]

Folks,

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

And I do feel it will be a great year that the Mark 22 Mod 0 "Hush Puppy" will truly be reborn, basically fifty years after it first saw use by the SEALs in Vietnam...

Based on input from others, I made the "executive decision" to hold off on the shoulder stock plans for now. I do realize attaching the shoulder stock to the pistol will instantly make it a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR) and I do NOT wish to tangle with the ATF, hence for me, I will only create the drawings at a later date...

BMCM is about to send me two chamber plugs he created from Delrin, with two different types of O-rings, to see which works best. BMCM is also working on a mold for the back end cap plug. He will be come the source for chamber plugs, back end cap plugs, and potentially muzzle plugs, once we make up a prototype faux can to send to the ATF for their determination if they will even allow the muzzle plug on a faux suppressor to start with...

So, in summary, the slide lock is the ONLY part actually left to be made, and that is in the works right now. The remaining needed parts (front sight, rear sight wings & elevation screw, faux suppressor) already have been made. Soon anyone will be able to recreate the "Hush Puppy," to enjoy and pay tribute to those SEALs who put themselves into harm's way while carrying it...

Another update hopefully soon...

 

[dvelleux]

Folks,

Received a Delrin chamber plug from BMCM today. It worked PERFECTLY, but extraction was a bit of an issue, though a couple fo changes to the rim thickness and the wb diamater should resolve the issue entirely...

 

[dvelleux]

Folks,

Anyone know of a decent web site to learn how to make a holster? I wish to make the holster for the Hush Puppy with the faux can attached. I have made holsters in the past, but they turn out less tha I want them to be...

 

[dvelleux]

Folks,

Am posting a few new images of the chamber plugs done by BMCM. Later this week, else early next, I am going to head to the gunsmith to pick up the 39-2 slide he worked on to cut down the barrel bushing to the proper "ring" size, then silver soldered into its correct place to allow a 5" barrel to operate and be removed for cleaning from the slide...

Things ARE progressing. The first replica should be done shortly...

 

[dvelleux]

Folks,

Just heard from the gent who is making the rear sight wings. He will be making a new batch this Saturday. I made a small modification to better fit the existing Second and Third Gen rear sight, to allow the windage adjustment screw to have more and better access. Yes, as I stated on the first post of this thread, I do not wish to do this, but it needed to be done. I truly am not worried, since there still will be enough "meat" on the wing's rear edge for strength and durability...

Launch date is getting closer. The chamber plugs are perfected and ready for production. We are still working on the back end cap plug for the suppressor. A 1:1 model of the faux suppressor will soon be made up and sent to the ATF for approval...

Exciting times indeed, folks...