I am Concerned about AR15 Home Defense

[goodoboy]

Hello,

Ok, everyone here have really helped me. Now to my next concern.

I will only use a AR15 for home defense, and I have been target practicing. I have red dot, I have quality flashlight mounted, its sight in for about 25 yards, i am good to go.

I have a serious questions regarding using my AR15 for home defense. I live in suburb area, in a brick home, just me and wife. Our neighbors home are nearby in about 5 yards away side by side and across the street.

I have my AR15 all setup with flashlight and red dot. I also have a SW M&P 9 mm with flashlight. I go to gun store to buy ammo, and the salesperson says "you know you can kill your neighbor if that AR15 bullet leave your house, and it will". I did not think of this and got really concerned.

I am scared that bullets will live my house and possible injury or kill my neighbor and get charged with murder. I really do no want that to happen.

1. Do you recommend AR15 for home defense? If no, is it because of too much penetration and hurt the neighbors?

2. What ammo do your recommend that will not penetrate and go to neighbor home and injury them?

Thank you kindly.

 

[medic15al]

No, I don't recommend an AR, but not for penetration. Your brick exterior will most likely stop a small high velocity lightweight bullet provided you aren't using Green tips or SS109 rounds. ( steel penetrator).

You really need a hand free for movement or opening doors, and a pistol is harder to wrestle away from you. The other factor is muzzle blast could stun you enough to be disoriented. Unless you are wearing tactical electronic hearing protectors.

Then you have the political fall out angle. Cops, prosecutors, and even neighbors get in on the "oh my God an assault rifle!" bandwagon and could possibly be a bad outcome. Shotguns and handguns are more benign in that regard.

 

[hardknocks]

Home defense

I think with The 9mm and shotgun you should be good to go.

 

[goodoboy]

No, I don't recommend an AR, but not for penetration. Your brick exterior will most likely stop a small high velocity lightweight bullet provided you aren't using Green tips or SS109 rounds. ( steel penetrator).

You really need a hand free for movement or opening doors, and a pistol is harder to wrestle away from you. The other factor is muzzle blast could stun you enough to be disoriented. Unless you are wearing tactical electronic hearing protectors.

Then you have the political fall out angle. Cops, prosecutors, and even neighbors get in on the "oh my God an assault rifle!" bandwagon and could possibly be a bad outcome. Shotguns and handguns are more benign in that regard.

Thank you medic15al,

I appreciate the response. I am thinking the 9mm and the shotgun (with the right ammo) will be good too. Lots of different response online. Like I said, I am concerned for my neighbors.

I do like the shotgun too with my flashlight.

 

[murphydog]

Good to think about these kinds of issues beforehand.

Someone here will be able to recommend a .223/5.56 mm round that is more likely to fragment on a hard object like brick or a wood beam. Figuring out the most likely angles and directions that shots will be fired, and from there where a projectile may travel, is a good idea.

I recall that there were studies looking at the overpenetration potential of 9 mm vs. .223 longarms that showed there was less with the .223. I suspect this is why I think there are relatively few agencies using the 9 mm submachine gun currently.

A good idea to be very familiar with all your guns and train regularly. Stay safe!

 

[gwpercle]

Home defense and in your situation thinking intruders, inside your home right. Whats the longest shot you can take inside ? Inside my house it's 20 feet....you all sighted in for 25 yards and the 223 might have just a wee bit too much penetration....
I have a short barreled cylinder bore 12 gauge with #4 buckshot next to the night stand. I don't know if it's the best solution but it makes me feel mighty comfortable inside my house where the distances are short. And if 5 rounds of 12 ga. doesn't end it I have a model 58 in 41 magnum on the nightstand for back up.
Gary

 

[goodoboy]

Good to think about these kinds of issues beforehand.

Someone here will be able to recommend a .223/5.56 mm round that is more likely to fragment on a hard object like brick or a wood beam. Figuring out the most likely angles and directions that shots will be fired, and from there where a projectile may travel, is a good idea.

I recall that there were studies looking at the overpenetration potential of 9 mm vs. .223 longarms that showed there was less with the .223. I suspect this is why I think there are relatively few agencies using the 9 mm submachine gun currently.

A good idea to be very familiar with all your guns and train regularly. Stay safe!

Thanks murphydog

 

[GypsmJim]

Brick or not, there must be windows somewhere. What if the line of fire lines up with the neighbor's window too?

We all want to be safe, but how can you ensure 100% that a stray projectile won't go where it isn't supposed to go?

 

[jagular]

Google xxx round penetration tests and you’ll be surprised how much a 9mm and even 00 buckshot will penetrate a standard residential wall. Know what’s behind your target and try and take that into consideration when protecting your home. Don’t spray and pray at an intruder, if you can’t see them then don’t shoot. Practice as always.

 

[amazingflapjack]

pump shotgun

 

[ARVOL]

Anyone have any thoughts about the new Hornady Critical Defense Rifle?

Hornady® Critical Defense® Rifle - YouTube

 

[shawn mccarver]

Hello,

Ok, everyone here have really helped me. Now to my next concern.

I will only use a AR15 for home defense, and I have been target practicing. I have red dot, I have quality flashlight mounted, its sight in for about 25 yards, i am good to go.

I have a serious questions regarding using my AR15 for home defense. I live in suburb area, in a brick home, just me and wife. Our neighbors home are nearby in about 5 yards away side by side and across the street.

I have my AR15 all setup with flashlight and red dot. My wife have a 12 gauge shot gun with flashlight. I also have a SW M&P 9 mm with flashlight. I go to gun store to buy ammo, and the salesperson says "you know you can kill your neighbor if that AR15 bullet leave your house, and it will". I did not think of this and got really concerned.

I am scared that bullets will live my house and possible injury or kill my neighbor and get charged with murder. I really do no want that to happen.

1. Do you recommend AR15 for home defense? If no, is it because of too much penetration and hurt the neighbors?

2. What ammo do your recommend that will not penetrate and go to neighbor home and injury them?

Thank you kindly.

Never believe the person behind the counter at the gun store.

This question is like any other. It is more complicated than the clerk made it out to be.

It is all about ammo selection.

Get 5.56 ammo in the JHP varmint load category, and you will penetrate LESS than 9mm pistol ammo.

This has been studied originally at Gunsite and reported to us on Jeff Cooper's original newsletter many years ago. More recently in a widely published report.

From one article on the subject:

"First up is this older article by R.K. Taubert, a retired FBI agent with over 20 years experience who conducted extensive counter-terrorism and weapons research while with the Bureau.

To quote Mr Taubert, (emphasis mine) ” … As a result of renewed law enforcement interest in the .223 round and in the newer weapons systems developed around it, the FBI recently subjected several various .223 caliber projectiles to 13 different ballistic tests and compared their performance to that of SMG-fired hollow point pistol bullets in 9mm, 10mm, and .40 S&W calibers.

“Bottom Line: In every test, with the exception of soft body armor, which none of the SMG fired rounds defeated, the .223 penetrated less on average than any of the pistol bullets.”

——-

And again on this page, there is testing by Gunsite Training Center Staff which found in a comparison of handgun calibers (9mm, .40 S&W, .22 LR, .45 ACP), and rifle caliber .223 (5.56) that:

“The only calibers which did NOT exit the “house” were .223 (5.56) soft point and hollow point loaded bullets.”"

Why “High Powered” 5.56 NATO/.223 AR-15 Ammo is Safer For Home Defense (FBI overpenetration testing) | Prepared Gun Owners

Here is the actual Taubert article:

About .223 Penetration

There are a number of other articles on the topic. Here is one:

An AR for Home Defense? Clay, Drywall, Raw Meat & A Myth Busted! - GunsAmerica Digest

 

[cyphertext]

Look into the Hornady TAP Urban line... that is one of several bullets that is designed to expand and fragment. The AR with proper bullet selection is a good choice for home defense. As far as pistol vs. AR, the AR is going to be easier to shoot and get hits with due to being a shoulder fired weapon... just more stable. You should not be going through the house, opening doors and such without the proper training and a partner to help clear rooms in my opinion. Take a defensive position and call the police. If they take my TV in the living room, I have insurance... come down the hall way towards me and my family though is a different situation.

 

[goodoboy]

Never believe the person behind the counter at the gun store.

This question is like any other. It is more complicated than the clerk made it out to be.

It is all about ammo selection.

Get 5.56 ammo in the JHP varmint load category, and you will penetrate LESS than 9mm pistol ammo.

This has been studied originally at Gunsite and reported to us on Jeff Cooper's original newsletter many years ago. More recently in a widely published report.

From one article on the subject:

"First up is this older article by R.K. Taubert, a retired FBI agent with over 20 years experience who conducted extensive counter-terrorism and weapons research while with the Bureau.

To quote Mr Taubert, (emphasis mine) ” … As a result of renewed law enforcement interest in the .223 round and in the newer weapons systems developed around it, the FBI recently subjected several various .223 caliber projectiles to 13 different ballistic tests and compared their performance to that of SMG-fired hollow point pistol bullets in 9mm, 10mm, and .40 S&W calibers.

“Bottom Line: In every test, with the exception of soft body armor, which none of the SMG fired rounds defeated, the .223 penetrated less on average than any of the pistol bullets.”

——-

And again on this page, there is testing by Gunsite Training Center Staff which found in a comparison of handgun calibers (9mm, .40 S&W, .22 LR, .45 ACP), and rifle caliber .223 (5.56) that:

“The only calibers which did NOT exit the “house” were .223 (5.56) soft point and hollow point loaded bullets.”"

Why “High Powered” 5.56 NATO/.223 AR-15 Ammo is Safer For Home Defense (FBI overpenetration testing) | Prepared Gun Owners

Here is the actual Taubert article:

About .223 Penetration

There are a number of other articles on the topic. Here is one:

An AR for Home Defense? Clay, Drywall, Raw Meat & A Myth Busted! - GunsAmerica Digest

Thanks shawn mccarver,

Which ammo type do you recommend in the AR15 for less penetration and intruder stopping power?

Thanks

 

[shawn mccarver]

Thanks shawn mccarver,

Which ammo type do you recommend in the AR15 for less penetration and intruder stopping power?

Thanks

I am not picky, but if you can find that 45 grain varmint load, that one was always good. It might have been replaced.

Any varmint load is better than ball. The more current articles on the topic have more recently produced loads. The V-Max seems to do address the concerns expressed in your original post.

 

[goodoboy]

Look into the Hornady TAP Urban line... that is one of several bullets that is designed to expand and fragment. The AR with proper bullet selection is a good choice for home defense. As far as pistol vs. AR, the AR is going to be easier to shoot and get hits with due to being a shoulder fired weapon... just more stable. You should not be going through the house, opening doors and such without the proper training and a partner to help clear rooms in my opinion. Take a defensive position and call the police. If they take my TV in the living room, I have insurance... come down the hall way towards me and my family though is a different situation.

Thanks cyphertext,

What grade of Hornady TAP do you recommend.

The plan is to not run towards the enemy, we will hide with our weapons (AR and handgun) and let the intruder come to us. We will not confront the enemy or chase them.

The plan is to wait for them to enter the room and I fire off with my AR towards the door. behind the door is no glass windows and plenty of sheet rocks

 

[cyphertext]

Thanks cyphertext,

What grade of Hornady TAP do you recommend.

That is dependent upon your individual rifle. You will need to select a particular round and then shoot it with your rifle. What works well for my rifle may not work with yours.

If you have a Sport with the 1:9 twist either one of the TAP Urban offerings in 55 gr or 60 gr should work.

 

[goodoboy]

That is dependent upon your individual rifle. You will need to select a particular round and then shoot it with your rifle. What works well for my rifle may not work with yours.

If you have a Sport with the 1:9 twist either one of the TAP Urban offerings in 55 gr or 60 gr should work.

Thanks cyphertext,

Just to be sure I understand Urban offers AR15 ammo that does not penetrate sheetrock in the house?

 

[federali]

I respect your desire to be adequately armed in the event of a home intrusion. You will probably garner as many opinions on this topic as there are forum members.

I too wrestled with the issue of over-penetration because I and my neighbors live in wood-frame houses. I own both an AR-15 and an M1-carbine, neither of which I consider suitable for home defense with so many innocents in close proximity. I feel fully protected with either a 9mm or .45 ACP at my bedside. However, I have studied my lanes of fire and I know in which directions I can't fire. If you go with the AR-15, consider an explosive varmint load which expands quickly and violently.

Often overlooked in a home defense scenario is the shotgun loaded with #4 buck. These pellets, each .22 caliber, are far less likely to penetrate several layers of home construction to reach neighbors. Even #4 shot, a turkey load, is super deadly at very close range and even less likely than #4 buck to cause havoc outside the home. I would avoid rifled slugs, "O" and "OO" buck in a suburban environment.

I'm not a lawyer but I think that if a bullet left your home to strike an innocent, you would not be charged with murder. Police officers have killed hundreds of bystanders over the years and are not charged.

 

[cyphertext]

Thanks cyphertext,

Just to be sure I understand Urban offers AR15 ammo that does not penetrate sheetrock in the house?

No... if it won't penetrate sheetrock, it won't stop a bad guy. What it should do though is start to fragment and lose energy after hitting sheetrock, so that it won't penetrate through the exterior brick and into your neighbors home.