It was an ignorant fad 40 years ago based on junk science, and now we get to see the same ignorance, junk science, and bad marketing again.
Good to see that history repeats itself, ad nauseum, ad infintium.
I Don't Load My Own, But I Have A Question - 30SC
- Thread starter Jon651
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It was an ignorant fad 40 years ago based on junk science, and now we get to see the same ignorance, junk science, and bad marketing again.
Good to see that history repeats itself, ad nauseum, ad infintium.
sourdough44
Member
I’ve done various loads with lighter than average Lehigh Defense copper bullets, 380, 9mm, 38 special. One can get a fair bit more speed, many of the bullets stay intact, no expansion on impact.
I’m not advocating anything, just doing my own testing.
I’m not advocating anything, just doing my own testing.
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I am getting about 1720 fps with the 68gr lh in 9mm 6904 using Cfe pistol powder. No pressure signs to boot. Haven't tried any penetration test. Hit about 1920 with 6.5"bbl.
How does one go about looking for pressure signs in a medium pressure cartridge like 9mm Luger? Pressure signs in high pressure rifle rounds is one thing, firing "hot" rounds in a revolver where you might see cartridges getting sticky in the chamber, but you will see NO pressure signs in lower pressure cartridges like 9mm. Hot loading for such calibers can be quite dangerous, because if you don't have a way of actually measuring pressure, you can be getting dangerously high for the rated cartridge easily.
Primers and smoky cases are good indications. A flattened primer is a good indication of high pressure. I have seen many factory rounds with flattened primers. I make sure my rounds are not flattened as much as those. Rounds that are are real smoky after shooting are an indication of low pressure because the case isn't expanding to seal the chamber and is letting gas leak by. Battered case is also a good indication of over pressure.
45 ACP, 38 special are low pressure IHMO I wouldn't consider a 9mm as low pressure. A 9mm is rated at 35,000 PSI which is the same rating as a 357 mag and a 9mm +P is higher than that. 40 S&W is also about the same.
I had loaded about .4 grains more of powder and was getting flattened primers indeed, when I backed off, they look nice.
Rosewood
sipowicz
Member
And anothet unnecessary caliber makes me wonder. If ammo companies “supposedly” can’t keep up with demand on established calibers, why come out and push a new one?
I remember years ago reading about people from outside industries getting into, or advising, gun industry. Saying ammunition and firearm profit margins are too thin (from some guy who worked in clothing retail), and marketeers who transformed shooting sports advertising to the embarrassing mess it is today. And on and on.
I think the waves of new calibers the last several years is bad advice from such people. NEW NEW NEW, create the illusion of innovation and change even if there is none, always telling everyone to be a good little consumerist and wait for whatever garbage they puke on you at Shot Show because it is the big event we should all focus on. Ect., ect.
Showing their ignorance and misunderstanding of something they don't know. Firearms are the one place where old technology and cartridges have the advantage over new, especially cartridges. In fact, every new cartridge is a step backwards for the shooting sports, and another divide nobody asked for. Not to mention, producing guns for a caliber nobody will stock for.
Straight to obsolescence has been the trend for a while. I honestly don't think they contribute much to shortages, because they are limited production to begin with, and they taper off to almost nothing when they fail as usual.
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Greetings,
This is a hypothetical question centered on the new 30 Super Carry.
I was perusing through the data Remington has published on their new 30 Super Carry round. They advertise that 30SC will have "9mm-like performance with less recoil and more rounds".
They showed a comparison chart between 9mm (9x19), the 30 Super Carry and 380 Auto (9x17), providing numbers for each bullet weight, velocity and energy delivered. Indeed the 30SC had a lighter bullet and a higher velocity, which is how I presume they achieved the energy delivered with supposedly less recoil.
Here is the scenario and my (uneducated) questions...
IF someone were to use the 380 Auto's bullet (same weight as the 30SC bullet but with the larger diameter of the 9mm bullet), with the current 9mm casing and powder load,
THEN would the combination of greater velocity PLUS greater cross-sectional area (for more energy delivered) AND the lighter weight bullet (for less recoil) give a shooter even greater benefits than the new 30SC (other than the supposed "extra rounds", of course)?
Are my presumptions anywhere close to correct?
Could this combination be used in existing 9mm pistols?
Has anyone tried this before?
I ask this only out of morbid curiosity.
Your getting into the realm of "what if" sedentary textbook gunfighting here. This is a very popular Internet topic particularly among the newschoolers, Youtubers, platformers, and upgraders.
This cartridge seems to offer little, if anything of practical value over what is already available and has been for a long time. Time and money is much better spent learning to shoot well with you have or can easily obtain rather than searching for a perceived advantage that may not be there.
A higher velocity, a lighter bullet, a little less recoil, and a couple of more rounds in a magazine.... you have to give up something to get there. What you give up may not be worth the tradeoff.
Rlg#17
US Veteran
Actually saw one yesterday, and handled it. Not impressed at all. Shield with a slide safety AND a grip safety. Not my cup of tea at all. Price of $529. 4 boxes of ammo in the 30SC. 80 rounds total for $123 + tax.
I’ve been in the game too long to believe in the hype and bravo sierra, just because a company says so. Companies have to come up with new stuff, to keep people a buying. Idc what fluffers or adds you might use, the 30 SC isn’t going to be close to the performance of a 9mm.
Waaaaay back in the 1960’s the Illinois State Police carried 88 grain jsp’s at like 1450+- fps that were rated at +p+ In their 39-2’s. What they found out after buying a gillion rounds of that ammo was, 1) They beat those 39-2’s like a red headed stepchild with those rounds, requiring frequent service by their armorers. 2) The rounds were traveling so fast, and were so poorly constructed that they would disintegrate upon hitting anything solid. 3) Hitting something soft like flesh, the dumped their energy immediately preventing any deeper penetration into vital organs.
So yes, it’s been tried before, a long time ago in 9mm and it didn’t work!
Don’t even get me started about the biker that got shot with their 9mm first Gen “silver tips” from W-W that took 22 solid hits to the torso and was still coming at the troops until he finally bled out! Most of the jackets on the silver tips, like 15 of the 22 rounds shed their jackets in the leather jacket he was wearing. Most of the troopers carried the 39-2 with maybe a spare mag in the cruiser then. After that a uniform issue was double mag pouch ON the belt, not in the car.
Regards,
Rick Gibbs
I’ve been in the game too long to believe in the hype and bravo sierra, just because a company says so. Companies have to come up with new stuff, to keep people a buying. Idc what fluffers or adds you might use, the 30 SC isn’t going to be close to the performance of a 9mm.
Waaaaay back in the 1960’s the Illinois State Police carried 88 grain jsp’s at like 1450+- fps that were rated at +p+ In their 39-2’s. What they found out after buying a gillion rounds of that ammo was, 1) They beat those 39-2’s like a red headed stepchild with those rounds, requiring frequent service by their armorers. 2) The rounds were traveling so fast, and were so poorly constructed that they would disintegrate upon hitting anything solid. 3) Hitting something soft like flesh, the dumped their energy immediately preventing any deeper penetration into vital organs.
So yes, it’s been tried before, a long time ago in 9mm and it didn’t work!
Don’t even get me started about the biker that got shot with their 9mm first Gen “silver tips” from W-W that took 22 solid hits to the torso and was still coming at the troops until he finally bled out! Most of the jackets on the silver tips, like 15 of the 22 rounds shed their jackets in the leather jacket he was wearing. Most of the troopers carried the 39-2 with maybe a spare mag in the cruiser then. After that a uniform issue was double mag pouch ON the belt, not in the car.
Regards,
Rick Gibbs
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The 30 Super Carry chamber pressure is greater than 9MM +P+. So I wonder how the recoil could be equal to or less than the 9MM?
Chamber pressure isn't part of the recoil equation. Bullet weight, powder weight, bullet velocity and gun weight are how it is calculated.
Rosewood
