Carried a Beretta 92 in Iraq. Did not care for it. Grip too big. Much prefer SIG P 226 in every regard.
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I enjoy my S&W 3rd Gens, but Beretta takes top prize
- Thread starter Miami_JBT
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I have had a 92 fire slightly out of battery. It blew the case at the feed ramp, which blew the mag out of the gun. It has been quite a few years, so I don't remember exactly, but something also happened with the grips. Are they dovetailed on one edge? They were bulged or something.
I did not care much for the 92 before this happened. It just doesn't click with me.
I haven't handled one since.
I know of this happening another time.
I did not care much for the 92 before this happened. It just doesn't click with me.
I haven't handled one since.
I know of this happening another time.
SGT ROCK 11B
Member
The Beretta 92FS is a fine pistol. Being a longtime cop with S&W revolvers I was hoping for a dependable 9mm with a 59 then a 659 and finally the 5906 (carry a 4506 too) The Beretta was just better.
SGT ROCK 11B
Member
Training Issue: Your were trained it was a Safety. I was trained its a decocker, it should be in FIRE 24/7.
Which is why there's hundreds of different gun models. Not everyone likes the same thing, yes?
However, I do note the 3rd Gen models weren't great sellers. In fact, they've been out of production for decades now. Nor is the M&P series any improvement at all, IMO.
Meanwhile, Beretta still cranks out the 92 series in multiple forms, Sig still does the P-22X series, Glock still does their thing, & CZ outsells Smith in the semi category.
For those who do enjoy the 3rd Gen, more power to you. Enjoy them. But the buying public has rejected them whole heartedly.
My .o2
Not that I've measured them, but I would've thought the P-226 grip is a similar size to the 92FS?
OP
Miami_JBT
US Veteran
The 92, 226, and G17 are all about the same overall. But the ergonomic layout is different. Never was a fan of the SIG P series except for the P239.
U.S.Army picked the Beretta 92 in 1986. By 1987 NAVY SEALS had tested the BERETTA and 4 other 9mms. They decided the SIG P226 was by far the best. In their tests they fired 6,000 rounds a week through each gun . They found that the Berretta frame cracked at @ 5,000 rounds . The grip was also a problem, TOO BIG. the average SEAL is 5'9" and 165# . A lot of those guys had smaller hands.
Points well taken. But, as may be expected, I have a response.
My experience with the 469/6906 is, as far as I know, unique. I have never read of a similar such experience. It has always amazed me that this small, light weight compact pistol would shoot so much better for me on our qualification courses than my 4" 686. I had been shooting DM class for over two decades. I consider the L frame revolvers to be the ideal duty revolver configuration, and it was I who had brought them into the department.
As I have said, I have attributed my success with the 469/5906 to the fit of that double stack grip frame to the size/configuration of my hands. But the change put my average score to 100%, plus easier and more quickly for me to shoot. To this day I still shoot my 6906 better than I shoot my personal L frame (at least out to 25 yards).
I don't think it was general lack of sales per se that doomed the third generation Smith autos. I think it was Glock. When the Glock was introduced the hook and bullet press writers were eager to get their hands on these plastic pistols to demonstrate how quickly they could destroy them. Except they could not, despite their best efforts. They dutifully reported this. Glocks very quickly caught on. Here was a simple, completely reliable, apparently indestructible lightweight pistol that was cheaper to produce and thus purchase than other contemporary pistols.
The handwriting was on the wall, and S&W knew this. They quickly introduced their own polymer frame pistols that were such knockoffs of the Glock 17 that S&W ended up having to pay royalties to Glock. S&W was reduced to producing a clone of this upstart Glock pistol to stay competitive in the marketplace. The mighty had taken a great fall, and the metal third generation pistols were a casualty.
It is common knowledge how dominant Glock has become in law enforcement and military markets. Every manufacturer now produces polymer pistols, even if they still produce metal pistols. It is what the market demands. That now includes Beretta, with the APX. Individual personal preferences aside, the question arises as to why Beretta would deign to produce a polymer pistol given the perfection of the 92 series.
One other example of S&W vs Glock. When I retired to where we live in the mountains I became friends with a local CHP officer. This when CHP was still carrying their .40 cal third gen S&W pistols. When he retired he still wanted to keep his hand in. He became a reserve with the sheriff's department. His job was to be the USFS contract deputy to patrol the very many USFS campgrounds we have in this county. It was a great gig. It was seasonal, it was steady, it was well paid. He was a great guy (sadly, since passed), so well suited to dealing with the people he would encounter in campgrounds. When he joined the sheriff's dept, he was issued a .40 cal Glock. He had been used to his CHP issue Smith. From the start his scores with the Glock were much higher. He much preferred it. Later on, when he wanted an EDC for his wife, one on which she could operate the slide rather than her blowback operated .380, he asked to try my Glock 26. She loved it and bought one. Score one more for Glock.
So the third gen S&W pistols did go out of production. There was no way for those to successfully compete with Glock. Since my EDC is now a Glock 26, even though I still have my 5906, I have to agree.
Glock was able to beat the third gen S&W at their own game. That spelled finis.
Terrible thing to have to turn mother's picture to the wall and say this in this forum. I will keep my flame suit close at hand.
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SGT ROCK 11B
Member
I agree 100%. Even I have a Glock and the ten plus S&W pistols I had? Sold them all.
Glock did this by selling brand new Glock for a pittance. I have read, but have no way to verify, Glock priced their pistols right at $200ea to LE departments. Glock also gave almost total reimbursement for a departments' old guns.
That's a tough deal to beat, IMO.
No clue why Beretta came out with their polymer pistol. Giving the public an option, maybe? Clearly, they're sticking to their alloy frames, even in their Compact models (of which I own two).
Until the 320 came along, Sig was also an alloy-framed believer. I don't know of too many folks who say the 320 is a better pistol though.
There are several brands now that are considered better than Glock. H&K being the prime one, with FN being a very, very close second. CZ is also right there with their own P-series. All three brands are going to be more accurate than a Glock, IMO.
Speaking of flame suit, I will say my 10mm Springfield XDM is a better gun than my Glock 20SF was/is. I know it's more accurate.
I think Smith could've managed to live selling the 3rd Gens to the public w/o LE buying them. Might've been difficult, but it should've been possible. But the public was turned off by a mediocre trigger & accuracy, IMO.
You mention Glock, but the Beretta, Sig & H&K helped kill them as well. FN was too late for any sort of effect, but they make a most accurate gun as well. Smith just didn't make a good enough gun in the 3rd Gen. The M&P line isn't much better, IMO. They're VERY slow sellers on the gun show circuit & in gun shops. Low pricing is the only thing keeping them going, IMO. As a customer's taste in guns advances, the other brands bring a lot more to the table than Smith.
It's a shame that Smith didn't have the engineering to make their semi's good enough to dominate as well as their revolvers do. Ruger & Taurus couldn't carry a Smith revolver's athletic supporter, IMO. It's only been in the last 2-3 years that Colt has been able to compete with their new models.
My .o2
Beretta is the oldest, continuedly ran business on the world. Not just guns, but anything.
I bought these Berettas when they were for sale as Italian trade-ins. The plastic stocks were pretty scratched up so I replaced them all. The 92S isn’t as clean and shiny as the one up in post #2, but the trade in prices were too hard to pass up. All three hit where I aim if I do my part, which is rare, but they all are very dependable. My grandson likes the .380 Model 81. It’s a little heavy for a small caliber. The M1951 and the 92S are fun to shoot, and I don’t know why but I like the mag release on the bottoms. The 92 is readily accessible in my cellar.
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inspcalahan
Member
I've had so many Smith's and Beretta's come and go over the years and for the most part, really enjoyed them all.
Every time I have the discussion of which one I like better, I end up holding onto the Sig's.
Every time I have the discussion of which one I like better, I end up holding onto the Sig's.
Echo40
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I don't own a Beretta 92, but based on my experience with a Taurus PT92 — which is a modified clone of the original first-gen Beretta 92 (no prefix) — I concur.
My California Highway Patrol Smith & Wesson 4006TSW was a personal grail gun which is very near and dear to my heart, but the basic design of the 92 Series pistols was more popular than the 3rd Gen S&W Semiautos for a reason.
The aesthetics, ergonomics, action, and just feel noticeably better.
My California Highway Patrol Smith & Wesson 4006TSW was a personal grail gun which is very near and dear to my heart, but the basic design of the 92 Series pistols was more popular than the 3rd Gen S&W Semiautos for a reason.
The aesthetics, ergonomics, action, and just feel noticeably better.
OP
Miami_JBT
US Veteran
Technically, Kongō Gumi of Japan has the honor of being the oldest company in the world (founded in the 570s). But they became a subsidiary of another Japanese construction company in the 2000s last I recall.
Beretta is the oldest firearms manufacturer in the world. But there are far older businesses still in existence. The top five oldest businesses are all Japanese and the oldest European business is an Austrian restaurant. Plenty of other businesses are far older than Beretta and they're mostly breweries, wineries, and hotels.
heeter3
Member
Miami_JBT,When we transitioned to semi autos from revolvers in the 90s it was hard to give up my Python that I carried from the early 70s.At first I went to an S&W 4506 which was ok but when an Officer in a neighboring town was confronted with a shoot situation he found that his magazine had dislodged ever so slightly during a foot chase.Thankfully by the time he tapped it back the bad guy had decided to throw down his semi auto and give up.The magazine safety disconnect had made the 4506 inoperable for that brief second probably saving the bad guys life but what if. After that incident I quickly decided to change to a Beretta 96D and never looked back.Today in retirement all Ive got are re olvers but I agree that the Beretta was a great duty gun for the time and circumstances of the job way back when.
Doug M.
Member
I never found the DA/SA transition to be a problem. The bigger problem for me is the bassackwards thumb safety/decocker. I have relatively small hands (thanks mom) and the operation is counterintuitive to me. The DOA variants would be a lot better for me.
I was issued a 1076, and found the Sig style decocker to be ergonomically friendly as a left handed shooter, but they ate extractors and failed a lot. The 4566s that came after also broke a lot.
I was issued a 1076, and found the Sig style decocker to be ergonomically friendly as a left handed shooter, but they ate extractors and failed a lot. The 4566s that came after also broke a lot.
I love those wooden grips! I had both a 951 and it's Helwan clone. The design fit my hand perfectly and it was a joy tucked over the right hip. Although lots of people will disagree about the crossbolt safety, I like it. I even had a Model 70, the old style, with the same safety. It was very convenient and I never worried about it being brushed off.
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