I hope there was a very good reason.....

[rwsmith]

Wow.....

Wow. Good discussion. A lot that hadn't entered my mind.

PS Maybe he will be a martyr, but as of now, we don't know anything about him at all outside of the fact that he was red flagged and subsequently killed. He'll have to meet my guidelines as to what comprises a good martyr, beside the fact that the only good martyr is a dead martyr.

 

[nachogrande]

MAYBE SO, BUT ALIVE WOULD BE BETTER.

you guys can be critical all you want but the fact stands that gary willis was a martyr.
.

I HOPE there is no wife/family left behind to appreciate his martyrdom.

 

[susieqz]

what we know is that gary willis fought n died defending his right to bear arms.
a noble act.

 

[rwsmith]

I hope you are right.....

I guess some folks won’t be stopped from worrying about worst-case confiscation scenarios.

But this simplistic scenario about a neighbor or someone who doesn’t like you reporting you to the police and getting your guns confiscated without due process is about as realistic as those fears of people who don‘t post their full serial numbers because they think someone will call the police with that serial and report the gun stolen, and the cops will come running and confiscate their gun.

The authorized petitioners, who vary by state but are limited to family and certain people with direct contact like for example doctors, have to convince a judge and provide specific evidence for the order to be granted, and there are pretty stiff perjury penalties for the petitioners if it turns out they swore to false information.

Does that guarantee these orders can‘t be abused in certain cases? No, but any suspicions of a wider gun confiscation scheme seem overblown. If it happens, fight it in court. Nobody who resists by violence is any kind of 2A hero.

I think that the actual introduction of a gun confiscation act in a State is worthy of discussion. The reason it is 'simplistic' is that we don't know anything.

My 'worry' is that this can be the wedge in the crack that opens further restrictions. And I've been around too many rabidly anti gun people to know that they'll keep chipping away at the 2A and I want to stop them. So far we (collectively) have held most of their proposals off.

Now your last sentence I wholeheartedly agree with.

PS: The post that I made a week or so ago came out as the result of a 'sensible discussion' with a gun grabber. I told him that it was well thought out, but still stepped on the 2A in two ways. He then asked me to clarify something, which I did. He deleted my post, with his reply worded in such a way that said I didn't answer his question, then he blocked me from answering. These are the people that 'worry' me.


NRA membership is encouraged on this forum so I believe that it is a pertinent issue here.

MODERATORS: Since this thread has turned into a discussion on actual instead of proposed legislation, should it be moved to the 2A board??? Thanks.

 

[nachogrande]

WHETHER THEY ARE RIGHT OR WRONG.

DO WHAT HE SAY, DO WHAT HE SAY. A martyr without all the virgins just stinks. JK, hold the flame throwers.

 

[susieqz]

so, under what conditions is it right to refuse to give up your guns?
is it never, just because the state has overwhelming force?

 

[Muss Muggins]

so, under what conditions is it right to refuse to give up your guns?
is it never, just because the state has overwhelming force?

That is a decision that everyone must make for him/herself . . .

 

[old bear]

you guys can be critical all you want but the fact stands that gary willis was a martyr.
.

As much as I hate to bring this up, Mr. Gary Willis was not a Martyr, he was a hot headed fool who chose to pick a fight and threw down on two cops. He made his play, knowing what the outcome would be. I'm sorry that the man died, but he brought it on himself.

 

[old bear]

so, under what conditions is it right to refuse to give up your guns?
is it never, just because the state has overwhelming force?

Are you willing to give up your life to make a political statement?
I always believed that a wise person chose their battles carefully, and generally only started a fight they believed they could win.

 

[nachogrande]

CHOOSE YOUR BATTLES...

Then live (or die) with the consequences. This guy made a poor choice IMO. Did he leave the cops an alternative?

 

[Cardboard_killer]

If you really think the dotGov is coming to take your guns away from you, then you should already know that they don't need a law to kill you.

Midlothian police officer who fatally shot security guard Jemel Roberson placed on administrative leave, officials say - Daily Southtown

The Midlothian police officer who fatally shot security guard Jemel Roberson on Sunday at a bar in Robbins has been placed on administrative leave, officials told the Daily Southtown on Tuesday.

The officer, who has not been identified, has worked for the department for seven years and is a member of the South Suburban Emergency Response Team, officials said.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

IMHO these "red flag" laws are meant to short circuit due process, the 2A, they're the equivalent of "protective custody" in the Third Reich and they're meant to create a Surveillance and Snitch society.

 

[Mack_C85]

Mr. Willis was 1302'ed (MD's Red Flag Law) by his Sister over a dispute over the care of their mother. Complaint was filed approx. 2300 hrs. Police show up at 0500 the next day to serve. Mr. Willis answered the door with a handgun (after Daylight savings time, it's dark), initially put the handgun down, was informed of the purpose of the visit, and picked up the gun. One of the officer's was struggling with Mr. Willis and the gun discharged, at that time the backup officer fired killing Mr. Willis.

1. Poor decision on Mr. Willis' part to pick up the gun. Don't know the intent or if the shot was intentional. But didn't give the backup officer much choice.

2. Extremely poor tactics on the officer's part not to control the known weapon before proceeding with service.

3. Alcohol was probably involved, police had been to the residence earlier the night before over the family dispute (alcohol was noted) about the mother's care, and this action (1302) was probably suggested by the police to the sister then.

BTW - In the MD law, the reporting party is protected from civil/criminal legal action as long as they claim "Good Faith". I.e you can lie your ... off, as long as you say "that's what I believed at the time"

While Mr. Willis's actions brought on his own fate, this law is rife for misuse by teed off family members and soon to be ex's!! Who not only don't face any repercussions, they are specifically protected from them.

 

[mtgianni]

Considering how easy it is to get a restraining order [he said she said only be the first one to file] and the permanence of the order it follows a red Flag order should not take much to acquire. Does one have the right to read the order, ask for his attorney before such is served? As to the person that said "What guns" I believe the house would have been reduced to an un-livable state if a search for guns was performed. They will do more than check under the bed and in the desk drawer.

 

[Cardboard_killer]

BTW - In the MD law, the reporting party is protected from civil/criminal legal action as long as they claim "Good Faith". I.e you can lie your ... off, as long as you say "that's what I believed at the time"

That's not what Good Faith means.

And here's the lesson: pick the people you are close with with care, treat them humanely and calmly, don't drink, and when the police say, "hello, I'm here to secure your weapons" don't reach for a gun, get a lawyer.

 

[Fishslayer]

Yep, what’s the red line you cross to be deemed dangerous? Argument with a family member, posting or visiting certain websites, ???

Anything somebody decides to come up with.

 

[rwsmith]

That would be better.....

what we know is that gary willis fought n died defending his right to bear arms.
a noble act.

...than this being help up as a victory for gun controls.

 

[Mack_C85]

That's not what Good Faith means

Yeah right, try to prove that's not what it means "beyond a reasonable doubt" against a statute that grants immunity for just "good faith"

Sent from my LG-G710 using Tapatalk

 

[usmc2427765]

Regardless of the situation, if LEO's tell you to put your gun down, do it!! Comply, comply, comply...if you feel you have been mistreated, there are many procedures in place for redress.

 

[Rastoff]

This will only get worse.

He was confronted early in the morning. Anyone would be on their guard. He had no criminal history and didn't have a diagnosed mental issue. In my opinion, they were attempting to seize his property without a legal warrant.

Here we have armed "authorities" trying to seize property from a person who has done no harm and committed no crime. It's that what the 2nd and 4th amendments are for? Isn't it his right to defend his person and property?