I hope there was a very good reason.....

[rwsmith]

I hope there was a very good reason for the Ferndale, MD police to confiscate a gun from a man on a 'red flag' order. When they confronted him, he put the gun down, but when they tried to take it, he tried to shoot and they ended up killing him. The reason for the 'red flag' order wasn't given.

This may be something that people on this board are interested in. Debate: 'red flag' law, method of carrying out confiscation, did the man have to die?

It seems that if police tell you to put down your gun, you need to do it, or else. Is it different if their only intent is to TAKE your gun? Still foolish to resist. I suppose the 'American way' is to take it up with the courts. But how long do you have to be without a gun? What were the reasons for the order in the first place? Were they justified? It seems that the 'procedure' for confiscation puts the citizen in a great position to get killed.

I guess in the history of law enforcement, the police have been charged with disarming citizens for no other reason than to disarm them. So surely they have the legal authority to do so. What it somebody that just 'didn't like guns' called the police on this guy. This sounds like the same bill that was proposed in Utah to take guns from citizens that other reported as risky.

 

[snuffy51]

Whatever the reason, LE officer tells you to put it down, it be best you do it, then go from there. They have to enforce the law. Sad situation but this is all I have to say.

 

[Alk8944]

If the original post represented the Maryland statute at all fairly, which is unlikely, then there is little similarity to the failed Utah statute!

As filed the Utah bill contained numerous safeguards favoring the citizen. An allegation by anyone not directly connected to the individual could not prevail in having that persons guns seized. It really appeared to be very logical and well thought out legislation!

Your first point is exactly correct! In the vast majority of cases if an individual confronted by police would simply COMPLY! You might not like it, but if the officer is wrong you do have recourse, as long as you cooperated! And any case where a citizen has ended up dead, the vast majority have taken actions themselves which caused this outcome!

 

[M29since14]

It’s hard telling what the reason was for the order, and equally hard telling if the killing could have been avoided. Maybe serving the order on the man when he was out in public, away from his guns? Maybe a little “tactical creativity” might have saved his life?

Whatever the case may be, he shouldn’t have resisted the cops with a gun in his hand and instead just let a lawyer handle it for him. He put himself in a no-win situation.

 

[wood714]

Ya don't mess with a LEO when it comes to guns.

Long story cut short... Back when I was married I came home one day to find the usual ambulance, fire truck, and multi police cars in front of my house. Fire truck had the driveway blocked so I pulled my Jeep thru the yard into the driveway.

Instantly surrounded by extremely irate police officers. They asked me who I was, and what I thought I was doing. Not in those word thou. Told them I lived here, and they said why are we supposed to believe that. Asked them if I could get my wallet, to show them my ID.

Handed them my licence. and carry permit. They got real serious then, one opened the Jeep door and told me to get out. Then he asked me to hand him my weapon. I put my hands on the back of my head and told him it was on my right hip, and he was welcome to take it.

No way in the world I was gonna reach for my gun surrounded by them. I'm sure I would have been ventilated if I had.

The cop that took my Glock. cleared it and put it down the front of his belt. After everyone settled down they were pretty cool to me.

 

[tlawler]

An officer is only doing his job so he can go home to his family every night. Whatever the reason, always comply with an officer. Your beef is not with him, but with those above him. You will have your day in court. No gun is worth losing your life over and depriving a family of their father.

 

[Bangler]

Either put it down or start shooting. The choice is yours, along with the consequences.

 

[hittman77]

Appears as though the deceased sealed his own fate when .... as you said .... "he tried to shoot".

If the red flag reason was mental instability ..... would confiscation be better handled by asking him to bring a gun to court or the police department? Yeah ..... NO ..... someone needs to go GET the gun.

Regardless, loss of life is always sad.

 

[S42N8]

From what I can find on the Internet, the deceased (Gary Willis) did not comply with the court order when served, and struggled with one of two LEOs when the officer tried to disarm Willis. Willis reportedly fired a shot, whereupon the second officer shot and killed Willis.

While I'm not convinced the news reports are complete, in general, 'tis a bad idea to resist, and moreso in MD. If that seems a bit much, the linked article cites the Anne Arundel police chief as expanding their storage space for the increased number of weapons they anticipate seizing. Mr Willis lived in Anne Arundel county.

The same article states that MD's red flag law is the broadest in the nation in who can petition for an order.

Not gonna get into the "was this necessary" discussion, but I don't miss MD one bit.

https://www.capital-gazette.com/news/for_the_record/ac-cn-red-flag-20180824-story.html

 

[LoboGunLeather]

Put the gun down and do what the nice officers tell you to do. Plenty of time to argue the matter peacefully in front of a judge later on.

 

[susieqz]

once the police have the gun, it would be lots cheaper to buy a new one, hiring a lawyer would cost as much as a dozen guns.
i'm not practicing now but i think a fee of $3000 would be acceotable, unless it was just an administrative hearing.
the guy was a poor marksman, but i feel sympathy for him.
many of us might resist if the govt came to disarm us.

 

[shouldazagged]

I'm old and tired and cranky, but not suicidal. If I did want to off myself, suicide by cop is unreliable. If I am ordered to put down or hand over a gun, it will be "Yes sir, right away, sir."

I fear Mr. Willis could not have been in his right mind.

 

[susieqz]

i guess ''take my gun from my cold dead hands'' isn't rea;?

 

[Cardboard_killer]

What it somebody that just 'didn't like guns' called the police on this guy.

The instructor of my concealed weapons class said a number of times: don't tell anyone, not even your "best" friend that you carry, nor what kind of gun you carry. It takes one phone call from that former "best" friend to the police, telling them that you pulled your "S&W snubnose model 36 with the fancy grips from the concealment pocket of his jacket," and threatened her, for you to end up in jail trying to deny the whole thing.

Or, like this case, shot dead for thinking too much of yourself when the police come knocking.

 

[Bangler]

i guess ''take my gun from my cold dead hands'' isn't real?

Only to a patriot.

 

[Muss Muggins]

i guess ''take my gun from my cold dead hands'' isn't rea;?

Pretty sure that's what happened here. Seems real . . .

 

[old bear]

i guess ''take my gun from my cold dead hands'' isn't rea;?

Only if you want to be cold and dead for real.

As a very wise man told me, years ago. “you can do anything you want to do, as long as you are willing to pay the price for doing it.” In this case the deceased paid just about the highest price someone can pay.

 

[Doug627]

It sounds like the order to remove the firearms was correct in this case. He confronted the officers with a firearm and then refused to comply with orders to surrender the firearm and even fired a round. As an attorney, I believe this person, or any person, would not have his firearms returned after confronting the officers and firing a shot. The shooter would have proven the necessity to prevent him from owning firearms. Had he cooperated and not armed himself, perhaps he would get the firearms back. This is not a situation where all the people were being disarmed. That would be a horse of a different color.

 

[DeathGrip]

His actions proved that whoever reported him was right. Sad.

Yet, This could have been someone who just didn't like guns reporting one of us.

I can't speak for all here but I dang sure wouldn't try to resist the police. Those guys and gals want to go home after their shift, most have family at home. I put myself in their shoes and he woulda been shot too. Sad.

 

[Stevens]

from original post:
"When they confronted him, he put the gun down, but when they tried to take it, he tried to shoot and they ended up killing him."

Seems to say it all, regardless of why they confronted him to begin with.
It will be interesting to learn the "rest of the story"
Steve W