I just got a depressing call from Houlton ME PD Updated 7/20

[PA Reb]

Show the deealer no mercy, if he has no money i call bs, as he had the bucks to buy 32 guns from the crook, HE HAS MONEY,give him no slack.

WOW! I'm literally speechless after reading that one !

 

[Ralph G. Briscoe]

This truly is sad. At the very least someone is out a lot of money for what? A boy's drug habit. 41nut has a small gun business and got caught up in a boy selling his dad's guns to fund his drug habit. The boy is the bad guy here. 41nut doesn't have the funds to refund the purchase price of all the stolen guns he sold. The law might not require him to make restitution, but he is trying to do the best of his limited ability.

Another case of drugs impacting innocent bystanders. This boy (I know, 26 years old is grown up, but this pissant is a little boy!) should be the one who, over time, has to pay back the thousands of dollars that these people are out, plus more money for their time and suffering. The problem is that by the time this boy has the ability to repay the money in 30 years or so, when he finally gets his life turned around, many of these guys like 41nut might not be around anymore.

Drugs are the cancer that's killing this country & the liberals want them legalized. Then we can spend our tax dollars on the druggie's medical bills through Obama-care. Ain't it great?
These liberals have the plan all worked out...they think!!!

A couple of corrections--Drug legalization is one of the tenets of the libertarian philosophy....they're certainly not "liberals." As for you "paying the druggie's bills through Obamacare," actually we're paying for them now, assuming the druggie is uninsured, and often at the highest emergency room rates. Obamacare will require him to have his own insurance, taking us off the hook. I know it's tempting to let your dislike of Obama blind you to some beneficial aspects of his policies, but those are the facts. It's unfortunate to try to twist a sad incident into a political issue.

 

[madmikeb]

While I can sympathize with 41 nut I'm afraid I can't let him off the hook completely. As I stated previously, at what point, when you have a 26 year old bringing guns in on a steady basis, 22 by 41 nuts own statement, do you start to suspect something may be amiss? When I spoke with him on the phone he said that I believe it was 9 of the stolen guns that he still had in his shop were confiscated. This means that he sold 13 guns at a profit. So due to a little maybe questionable judgment on his part, I'm out a grand and a gun I looked for for years and went out on a limb financially to buy even though I really couldn't afford it at the time. There are also 12 other buyers out there in the same situation. 41 nut made a profit from us and we have nothing. I do not think that 41 nut is a bad person and I have no interest in making his life miserable. I do think that he maybe showed poor judgement, so his losses are his doing. There are 13 of us though that took a loss through absolutely no fault of our own.

 

[Holster]

Most any business carries insurance covering all kinds of events - don't most gun shops have insurance coverage so they can continue to do what they need to do - take care of the customer first?

 

[justsumstuff]

Put it in writing, in a letter to those you plan to make restitution. He stated that you said that "he had to go through the court system to get his money". Now you post something different. This gives the impression that you don't care. Of course, if you put your plan in writing, then you are bound to it.

Perhaps a payment plan could be agreed upon?

I haven't been on the computer much lately and only became aware of this thread today after a friend told me about it.

Now as the FFL dealer who bought 22 out of 32 stolen gun over the past 14 months along with some tools, ammo, holsters, and some scopes I will tell everyone the rest of the story. I had sold less than half the stolen guns and had given one to my son when the theft was discovered. This incident has cost me over $9,000 which given the volume of business I do is catastrophic. I operate a small shop and receive a small disability check due to a serious back injury at work which left me with 5 permantly injured discs in my neck and upper back and 4 more in my lower back.


First I'll attempt to answer some of the questions raised. I often check with the local PD even though there is no requirement to do so in Maine as to whether or not a gun is stolen before purchasing it. However in this case the guns were not known to have been stolen until approximatly 2 months after the last one had been sold by the theif.

Maine has a fairly good restitution system which will reimburse what the buyer paid for the guns.

I have provided the investigating detective as well as the DA with copies of my sales receipts for the stolen guns. That is how they knew who to contact to have them returned. I also provided both with copies of my bill of sale signed by the thief who sold them to me.

As how they were traced to me. Chalk it up to good memory of a local cop. About 4 months before the theft was reported he had stoped the thief for speeding and driving to endanger. He had a semi auto 9 mm in the case he had bought from me only minutes before. He also had the receipt I had given him. The receipt showed that he had traded 2 of the stolen guns with me for the semi auto and some cash. That particular cop was the one who handled the initial theft report and remembered those two guns when he saw them on the list. Dad had an excellent record of when he bought a gun, make, model, cal, and SN. So he brought a copy of the list of stolen guns to me and I went thru my records to see just what I had bought from the thief. I had bought 22 of the 32 stolen guns.

I agree 100 per cent with the concensus that I am responsible for repaying the purchasers, but the sad fact is that at this point in time I am unable to. Right now due primearly to the stolen items I purchased and then due to the poor economy in the northern section of the state I have purchased nearly 3 times as many guns over the past year as I normally would have, this had stretched my funds to the limit, so now I am on the verge of losing my business due to bankruptcy. At this point in time I just do not have the money to refund those who bought stolen guns from me. I'm hoping to be able to hang on until this fall and to have a good fall selling lots of guns at which time I will start repaying some of those who lost out due to buying a stolen gun from me. It may take me a little time but I fully intend to eventually make every one whole. In the mean time I have talked to the DA requesting that anyone who bought a gun from me be paid restitution before I am paid any.

The kid (I say kid but he is either 26 or 27) stole 32 guns, a bunch of ammo, some scopes, grips, & other misc shooting supplies and some air carpentry tools from his father over approximately a 14 month period. And the last 3 weeks before the discovery of the stolen property he was attempting to sell dad's 1968 and 1976 Harley motorcycles. He also stole around $20,000 worth of jewelry of his mothers most of which had been inherated from her mother for the gold and silver value. All to support a drug habit.

 

[justsumstuff]

I know that this is an FLL dealer, but what do I do when I can't get cooperation from the store? Call the Better Business Bureau. Also, The original thread talked about the purchase was at a gun show. A lot of gun shows are run by one or two companies. Perhaps a letter to both explaining that the dealer is uncooperative. Sometimes it helps.

 

[M3Stuart]

I think this is a very good thread; we started the first dozen+ pages seeing the buyer's (of a stolen gun) point of view and then, in a VERY RARE situation, we got to hear the story from the seller's point of view.

I think that blogs like this are rare these days because we have an open (and hopefully honest) exchange of ideas where we can brainstorm alternatives, read a back-and-forth over the merits of them (lawsuits/payment plans/etc) and sincerely empathize with both sides.

If this discussion has veered off the rails a little from time to time, that's ok by me. I'll be the first to admit that my earlier posts were 'from the hip' and I think it's good that I got to recognize my penchant for 'knee jerk' reactions. For my part - and that's all I can do - I'll try to apply this lesson to other aspects of my life - and try to understand both sides of the discussion.

 

[gr7070]

Most any business carries insurance covering all kinds of events - don't most gun shops have insurance coverage so they can continue to do what they need to do - take care of the customer first?

Most small businesses I am aware of (not firearm businesses) carry no insurance.

Many insurance items are very expensive and the sole proprietor doesn't necessarily generate a ton of revenue. So they go without to cut expenses.

Also, many owners feel liability insruance makes them a target of lawsuits more than anything. They intentionally do not carry insurance as their approach to limiting their likelihood of being sued.

I'd be rather surprised if a one person gun sales business, who reportedly isn't making a ton, who sells out of their home and at a gun show table has any kind of insurance. And even if they did, the chances of the policy covering this are not a given either.

 

[41 nut]

Possibly as madmikeb says there was a bit of poor judgement on my part. However in this area it is normal for a young guy to have a bunch of guns that he has either inherated from a parent or been given. He had a good story about his father having cancer and giving him the guns. Which I believed as I lost a brother to cancer last Nov., and about a month ago my brother in law who had fought it for 6 years. He gave 47 guns to his son while fighting the cancer. Also I knew the thief had recently lost his job due to a business closing. So all in all his story was believable.

Yes I did make a small profit on the guns I had sold. The guns I did sell were sold over a period of about a year. The profit has been spent on other guns in inventory which is why in my original post I said I hoped to have a good selling season this year in order to repay the purchasers. The following is not to make an excuse, but to explain a simple fact. Due to the economy I have over 130 guns for sale on hand right now when I normally would have 45 to 50. That is why I don't have the funds to repay everyone right now. I have been turning guys with guns to sell away for over a month because I ran out of funds. Anyone into collecting early AH Fox double shotguns? I have one in inventory that when sold will allow me to repay everyone. Its not that I'm being uncooperative - its that at the present time I am unable to do anything. Remember it is the middle of the summer when people are fishing, taking family vacations, etc. rather than buying guns. Mid June until late Aug are traditionally dead times as far as my selling a gun. I sold one cheap single shot shotgun in July. That will not go very far in repaying anyone. Sales should start picking up in a couple weeks and I have a big gun show in Sept. at which I hope to sell enough guns to make a big dent in what I owe purchasers.

Insurance will not cover this type of situation. Had the guns been stolen from me then I would have been fully covered. I do have liability, theft, fire, and whatever else insurance. Wouldn't dare be in business without it.

 

[Hayfield123]

41 nut,
As I understand it, basic listings on gunbroker are free . . . why not list everything in your inventory and expand the target audience? Maybe you could move some of your inventory and get back on a firm footing.

Or, maybe I am being overly simplistic?