I wonder how US cars would fare with this test

[LVSteve]

They have changed the way gas mileage is determined in Europe for the first time in over 20 years. The EPA here did something similar in 2015 IIRC, but the testing remained lab based. In Europe, they've gone for road testing, big time. I must assume it is on some kind of test track to generate comparable values.

A few other points caught my eye:

1) Speeds up to 80+ mph
2) Real time emissions measurements
3) They test every configuration made by the manufacturer.

This last point is a monster.

Why a two-year delay in launching the new regulations in full? Because of the enormous complexity of testing every make, model, bodystyle and derivative, complete with every accessory and optional extra. The new rules demand transparency on what effect, for example, fitting bigger alloy wheels will have on your CO2 and mpg.

I also wonder how many gas vehicles would come unstuck on emissions when real, on the road testing is done. Yeah, I know, doesn't fit the "diesel is bad" commentary so we would never find out.

 

[bigwheelzip]

The auto ownership environment is so much less expensive here, that most people don't care as much as Europeans about the accuracy of the City/Highway mileage specification. The only time it seemed to cause widespread concern here was the 1973 oil crisis.

 

[muddocktor]

And Steve, that's yet another reason why vehicle ownership across the pond is so more expensive and probably another reason why fuel prices are double ours too. I always looked at those numbers as government sponsored BS anyways, and only somewhat useful in comparing one car against another while shopping.

 

[6518John]

Isn’t all this going to simply further the inroads of the electric cars into the market place? It would not surprise me a bit if this was not the backdoor intent.

 

[johngalt]

I wonder if this will wind up with a reduction in the number of models that will be available. I can see car companies being pressured to cut back to reduce the testing burden.

 

[s&wchad]

Glad I live in the USA!

MPG... Really???
I use Kroger fuel points that I get with prescriptions, cash cards, rewards surveys and food purchases. I‘ve received $1 off per gallon just about every month, for the last 3 or 4 years. I filled up my F-150 today and bought 31 gallons at $1.59 per gallon, and still have 1000 points left this month (another $1 off per gallon, for up to 35 gallons). Fuel is cheaper than it’s been for decades. The USA is a major producer and there’s plenty to go around.

Carbon dioxide???
That’s what plants use to create oxygen in photosynthesis. Without adequate levels of CO2, our eco-system would shrivel up and die. I was taught 50 years ago that we’re coming off an ice age and the planet is warming. I would love to play golf tomorrow in Michigan, but it’s not happening.

Are current levels a threat? I have no idea, but I’m not willing to risk our economy and way of life on it. Carbon monoxide can kill you - carbon dioxide keeps our planet thriving.

80 MPH???
That’s the low end of the average speed on expressways around here when conditions are clear. Our highways were built for 70 MPH traffic 60 years ago when cars had bias-ply tires and drum brakes. Hang up and drive!

Sorry, but I’m not buying into the current dialogue. I’ll continue driving my 395 HP V8 4-wheel drive F-150, without feeling guilty. I think 19 average MPG is a blessing! If you can come up with another fuel source that gives me a 700 mile range, allows a refill in about 10 minutes and doesn’t involve lithium (which is toxic to the environment, requires massive amounts of fossil fuel to mine and is a nightmare to dispose of), I’ll consider drinking the Kool-Aid!

 

[vonn]

Having spent most of my life testing cars I don’t think any numbers they get road testing will be any better than the numbers now found on the window sticker that are obtained in a tightly controlled environment. Way to many variables that can’t be controlled in on the road testing

 

[BC38]

LIKE LIKE LIKE!
I wish I could actually give your post more than one real like S&W Chad!

 

[JJEH]

Glad I live in the USA!

MPG... Really???
I use Kroger fuel points that I get with prescriptions, cash cards, rewards surveys and food purchases. I‘ve received $1 off per gallon just about every month, for the last 3 or 4 years. I filled up my F-150 today and bought 31 gallons at $1.59 pre gallon, and still have 1000 points left this month (another $1 off per gallon, for up to 35 gallons). Fuel is cheaper than it’s been for decades. The USA is a major producer and there’s plenty to go around.

Carbon dioxide???
That’s what plants use to create oxygen in photosynthesis. Without adequate levels of CO2, our eco-system would shrivel up and die. I was taught 50 years ago that we’re coming off an ice age and the planet is warming. I would love to play golf tomorrow in Michigan, but it’s not happening.

Are current levels a threat? I have no idea, but I’m not willing to risk our economy and way of life on it. Carbon monoxide can kill you - carbon dioxide keeps our planet thriving.

80 MPH???
That’s the low end of the average speed on expressways around here when conditions are clear. Our highways were built for 70 MPH traffic 60 years ago when cars had bias-ply tires and drum brakes. Hang up and drive!

Sorry, but I’m not buying into the current dialogue. I’ll continue driving my 395 HP V8 4-wheel drive F-150, without feeling guilty. I think 19 average MPG is a blessing! If you can come up with another fuel source that gives me a 700 mile range, allows a refill in about 10 minutes and doesn’t involve lithium (which is toxic to the environment, requires massive amounts of fossil fuel to mine and is a nightmare to dispose of), I’ll consider drinking the Kool-Aid!

Thank you, I agree 100% and have nothing to add.

Europeans are getting screwed and financially abused, I'm glad I escaped that totalitarian regime over there!!!

 

[Kanewpadle]

Is that why Volkswagen cheated?

 

[Sevens]

Who on Earth foots the bill for all this nonsensical testing?!

(Hint: same guy at the end of the chain to whom all costs are trickled down to)

In summary, this sucks.

 

[NYlakesider]

I'm only going to talk about mileage here. Even my Toyota Tundra 4X4 pick up with close to 400HP can get 18MPG if you drive reasonably normal My last 4 Vettes have been some of the best vechicles I ever owned for fuel economy and I started driving in 1962.


Now to be honest if you are hard on the right pedal your mileage can and will suffer dramatically. The Vettes can get mileage approaching or topping 30MPG if driven like on a interstate. This is newer vechicles that have 350 to over 500HP. Yes you can get that good of mileage and if you put your right foot down hard can take on most any vechicle out there, some costing 3 time what the Vette does.

With that said talking about gas mileage and the speeds the bean counters use.

There always telling you slow down and save gas, any thing above 60 cost you mileage. Well with the aerodynamics of the Vette and the very good engine/trans combination you can drive speeds much higher than 60 and get better mileage than going slow. From what I have seen your millage does not suffer till you hit about 85. Note I do not recommend this but I have had occasion to take some long trips and see what I see.

 

[CB3]

I understood the tests involved running similarly equipped vehicles through certain barriers and into gel to test for penetration.

 

[LVSteve]

Having spent most of my life testing cars I don’t think any numbers they get road testing will be any better than the numbers now found on the window sticker that are obtained in a tightly controlled environment. Way to many variables that can’t be controlled in on the road testing

This issue is that lab testing is repeatable but not realistic. As I said in the OP, the testing has to be done on some kind of dedicated track, so that takes out traffic as a (major) variable. All these mpg and emissions tests, be they in Europe or courtesy of the EPA, are about the consumer being to make comparisons, should they choose to. Clearly, this is not on S&W Chad's agenda.

Besides, if it wasn't for "on road" testing VW's diesel crimes would not have come to light. Yes, Chad, I do want to see the same testing done on gas powered vehicles to maintain a level playing field.

Full disclosure, we own two diesel passenger vehicles. Thankfully, neither comes from the VW group.

One more thing. Where is this $1.59/gallon gas? Probably haven't seen that in 15 years in NV.

 

[TX-Dennis]

One more thing. Where is this $1.59/gallon gas? Probably haven't seen that in 15 years in NV.

He's using points from his supermarket that gives him a discount on gas purchases. I do the same. I've saved as much as $1/gallon which is the most points they let you use at once. I fill up weekly, though, so usually it's .20 or .30 cents off.