I'm horrible with a pistol! advice needed

Quite definitely take a lesson. There's a thousand little details on hand placement, body alignment, where your feet are, and all that that can screw you up.

You could try a YouTube video to see if you can start to get it on your own, but I have always improved when shooting with an instructor. Every time.

the original point and click interface, by Smith & Wesson
 
Go get instruction for both you and your other half.

Would you teach her to drive?

If not, definitely get her instruction at the same time.

If so, still better to learn together than have one trailing behind.
 
GET SOME HELP

NO SHORTAGE of those willing to give advice, including me, but BAD ADVICE is worse than none imo. After some learning get a 22 lr & PRACTICE 500 rounds a week more/less as able, concentrating on slow deliberate basics. Shooting a handgun well is not easy. Some have a gift for it, others may never be good, BUT ALL will improve with GOOD practice, and lots of it.
 
I fully agree with the shorter starting distance. I have only been shooting a handgun for a year making me a newbie in my 50s. So far I only own/shoot a 22 though i have tried my son in laws 9 a couple times. I can be accurate with the 22 if i stay 10-15 yds, but when I go to 20-25 yds most hits are in a larger 4-6" group. I blame that to my lack of experience, older eyesight, even target choice. If I start at 5 yds then work my way out it seems to help get in a groove.
When i've shot the 9, I actually did pretty well once I stopped anticipating the recoil. So for me it will be continuing my rangetime with my 22 ( i try to go monthly, 200+ rounds each time) as well as the 9 I am getting.
If I may add, I often see those hit the range with only a large caliber handgun. They go thru a couple mags worth and leave, and frankly their accuracy at short distance is not that impressive. I realize ammo isn't cheap for those, but speaking for myself if I am going to use a gun for defense or carry I dang well better be good with it.
 
I'll bet you are shooting too low. Are you using a sight picture where the 3 dots are lined up horizontally and your intended point of impact is sitting on TOP of the middle dot? 6 o'clock hold. If yes, that's your problem. With a M&P, you will find that the bullet hits where the middle dot is. You should be covering the point of impact with the dot. Tape a big piece of cardboard to the back of your target. That way you can see where your misses are going. If they are all clustered under the bottom of the steel between 5-7 o'clock positions, you are shooting too low.

A miss tells you nothing until you know where it went.
 
Get instruction from a good instructor. A full day good intro to handgun class would be very beneficial.
 
Shooting a handgun is more difficult than a long gun, but still employs the same basics, sight alignment and trigger control.
If your trying to master the handgun with a 9MM well, good luck.
I would go to a 22 wheel gun and do dry firing, ball and dummy and staggered chamber firing with that 22.
Be careful of these so called "expert instructor's classes". If your going to go with an instructor, asks for references in your area before spending money and possibly picking up more bad habits.
 
Not exactly like that. I shoot my rifles, muzzle loader, and bow a bit differently than that. Slow and steady pressure while sight picture is maintained and breathing is controlled. Red dot sights on the AR's get me snap shooting a bit more like you describe, though. Thank you for the link. I'll check it out.

So you slowly line up the sights like you were shooting a rifle, and then pull the trigger quickly when it looks JUST RIGHT? That's a guaranteed miss. Sound familiar?

Strongly suggest you take a pistol course with an instructor qualified to teach you how to grip a semi-auto, and especially how to control the trigger. Your choice of targets sucks for learning how to shoot a pistol...later it will be useful. NRA lists courses by geographic area.
NRAInstructors.org - Portal for NRA certified Instructors, NRA Education and Training
 
I agree with all the suggestions, especially moving the target closer. Start with a closer target (5 yards) then as you get more confident and comfortable move the target out. Confidence is one of the, if not the most, important factors in accuracy. I see a lot of competitive shooters that miss before they even draw their pistol because they think that's what's going to happen. PMA is the secret (Positive Mental Attitude). Keep at it.

Sounds a lot like golf. If I think I'm going to miss a put, or make a bad drive, i will do exactly that. Every. Dang. Time! You are correct in your assumption of my mindset with the pistol, sir. That's kind of why I've kept my practice sessions to a mag or two only. While I'm not scared of the gun perse, I'm not 100% comfortable with it. That's got to be screwing with my head.....as well as it being freezing cold out. Thank you.
 
I tried to answer your questions the best I could below.

The above advice is sound. I'm ready to start typing a bunch to help you get on the right path, but I need a little more info before I start to help focus what I say. Please answer these questions:

Which M&P 9mm to you have specifically?
It is a full size 17 round capacity.
-Thumb safety or not?
Yes. I wanted that additional safety seeing as I am new to pistols.
-Compact or full size?
Full size. It is not a 'C' model.
--If compact, do you have the pinky extension on your mags?
N/A
-Have you made any modifications?
Added a Veridian green laser/light combo to the rail below the barrel. Only practiced dry fire with it after 'rough zeroing' it rested in the house. Wanted to become proficient with the stock sights before relying on the laser. Also, my better halfs eyesight is bad without contacts or glasses so I thought the laser would help her (again, after becoming proficient with it) in low light/high stress home defense scenarios. Hopefully I didn't waste a couple hundred bucks.


Have you never fired a pistol before or is this just the first one you own?
I've shot pistols on a very limited basis. What I have shot are: Kimber 45, a fancy souped up Les something or other 1911 in 45, 9mm S&W non M&P, a couple Ruger revolvers ranging from 38 to some monster 454 or the like, Walther 22, and probably a few I've forgotten about. None were shot in a serious learning environment .... More of a "hey, want to take a few shots with this) kind of thing. Let's guess maybe 10 rounds of the above each over the span of 15 years. No one in my family ever had pistols while I was growing up and never considered getting one.

When shooting Sporting Clays, what do you focus on?
This may sound odd, but I am, and always have been an 'instinctive shooter' when it comes to wing or clay. Let's put it this way, I can never tell someone what to focus on or how far to lead a bird on a European pheasant shoot or on the SC course.....I just hit it more times than not. Both eyes open and keep swinging thru the shot. If I had to guess (and this came up at a European shoot a few weeks ago) I would say that I have well over 15,000 rounds thru my Benelli SBE.

When shooting a rifle with a scope, what do you focus on?
Crosshairs where I want them, trigger squeeze, breathing, be surprised by the shot.


I am certified by the NRA to teach Basic Pistol classes. I also teach self-defense both with a pistol and empty hand. I'm positive that we can get you on target with a little thought and the right practice.
 
The first few times I shot I was shooting high left according to the marks/spray from the snow. I can't tell you how my sight alignment was in relation to the target as it seems that it's too far away. Yes, I did try to allign the dots in a horizontal row, though.
I'll bet you are shooting too low. Are you using a sight picture where the 3 dots are lined up horizontally and your intended point of impact is sitting on TOP of the middle dot? 6 o'clock hold. If yes, that's your problem. With a M&P, you will find that the bullet hits where the middle dot is. You should be covering the point of impact with the dot. Tape a big piece of cardboard to the back of your target. That way you can see where your misses are going. If they are all clustered under the bottom of the steel between 5-7 o'clock positions, you are shooting too low.

A miss tells you nothing until you know where it went.
 
Thank you, that answers my questions and helps me help you.

First lets talk about grip. This is the basic pistol grip:
With your firing hand, put the back strap in the center of the web between your thumb and fore finger. Then wrap your fingers around the grip with your trigger finger along the frame (Reference Point, more on this later). It should look something like this:
ProperGriplefthandrightsidesmall_zps41a18b8f.jpg

InLineForearmsmall_zps79c9e3ce.jpg

Note that the bore of the gun is in line with the shooting hand forearm. (Yes, I'm a lefty, just use the mirror image if you're right handed.) Get your hand as high as you can in the grip. This will help control recoil. Put your thumb on top of the safety. This will help keep your grip high. It may feel uncomfortable at first, but it will help your shooting in the long run.

Now, bring the support hand up. Put "fingers on fingers" around the shooting hand fingers on the grip and as high as you can. The whole grip should look something like this:
ProperGripRightsmall_zps7bbedf5d.jpg



Create some tension by pushing a little with your shooting hand and pulling with your support hand. This will help steady the whole gun and control recoil.

Even as you add this tension, the overall grip is not tight, just firm. Your thumbs should be relaxed and your pinkies should be relaxed. The majority of the grip is done with just the middle and ring finger of your shooting hand. (This is why some people shoot better with a compact grip where the pinky doesn't fit on the grip.)

It's important to note that this is not the "be all, end all" of the grip; it is just the starting point. You may find slight variations that fit you better. I just recommend this when starting out.

Now, let's talk about the "three secrets." They're not really secrets, but it seems like it when you see most people shoot. They are, Sight Alignment, Sight Picture and Trigger control.

Sight Alignment:
Align the top of the front sight with the top of the rear sight. Ignore the dots for the moment. Ensure there is equal daylight in the rear notch on either side of the front sight.

Sight Picture:
Here is the proper sight picture for the M&P-
center_hold_1small_zps73158b87.jpg

The front sight should be in clear focus, the rear a little out of focus and the target will be a little blurry. Notice that the top of the front sight is in the middle of the target. This is called a center hold. It is how the M&Ps are set up at the factory. This has been verified by many owners. This will put rounds in the center of the target out to ~15 yards. You may have to hold a little higher at 25 yards.

When shooting, your focus must be on the front sight. Failing to do this will dramatically open your groups up.

Trigger Control:
This is the most important part of shooting a handgun. Without trigger control, the sights/muzzle will be pulled off line and misses are guaranteed.

When the trigger is pressed, it must be smooth and straight back. The only finger that moves is the trigger finger. As you can see in the diagnostic target posted above, moving or tightening of the other fingers will pull the gun off target.

The trigger finger builds pressure until the sear breaks. It should be a surprise break. This is exactly the same way it's done with a rifle. After the sear breaks, trap the trigger back. Then release the trigger smoothly until the trigger resets. Do not take your finger off the trigger. Then, after it passes the reset point, take up the slack again and get set for another press. It's not that you're looking for the reset, just don't let your finger fly off the trigger after the shot. Remember, this is about control.


Now, there is a fourth secret, but this one is so uncommon it must be top secret; follow through.

Follow Through:
After the shot has been fired, re-acquire the sight picture. Stay on target. Use all the fundamentals just discussed above, but don't fire. This should be familiar because of your shotgun experience. After the shot with the shotgun, it is important to keep swinging the gun. The same here, but you're just not moving. So, re-acquire that sight picture just like you're going to shoot again. Those who don't do this, usually give up on the shot early. By developing good follow through, most of the other issues will take care of themselves.


One last thing; Reference Point.
This is not a shooting skill, it's a safety issue. When not ready to shoot, the trigger finger goes along the frame above the trigger. Find a spot on your frame that you can feel with the tip of your finger. Develop a habit of keeping your trigger finger there until you are sighted in on the target. As you can see in my first pictures, it is clear to anyone standing on either side of me that my finger is not on the trigger. This is valuable when shooting with others and by yourself. It helps to reinforce the safety aspect of trigger control.


There is a lot in this post. Even so, it just scratches the surface of shooting a pistol. The NRA Basic Pistol class will go more in depth on what I've talked about here. Sorry, but there are no shortcuts. If you want, I'll go into the dry fire rules in another post.
 
I took a CCW course yesterday and in the qualifying part I got a tip from the instructor that helped my with my shooting a lot....I would definitely get lessons from a good instructor...the charts will tell you what you are doing wrong but having someone beside you to tell you how to correct it is great
 
Another idea I would suggest is to use paper targets so you know where your misses are going assuming your use a large enough paper target. Steel targets are tough to determine where your misses are going.
 
The first thing that I picked up on was your description of the trigger on your pistol. NOBODY my age learned shooting with that kind of trigger. Most folks, after learning to shoot a .22 rifle, and perhaps a CF rifle, would start out with a .22 revolver, or perhaps autoloader. It's bad enough starting with a 9mm or .38 Special, but not insurmountable, by any means. But a bad trigger?

I'm not saying that a defensive pistol has to have a good target trigger, but learning to shoot a pistol with a bad trigger is WAAAY too complicated. Put that thing away until you can shoot well with a target-quality arm. I recommend a K22 revolver or a Ruger auto, unless you have a lot of money, in which case perhaps a Model 41 might be slightly nicer. Equally important, get a copy of Gil Hebard's The Pistol Shooter's Treasury. After you feel comfortable shooting well with a decent trigger, then you can learn to shoot with a poor one. Or maybe by that time you'd rather have a 1911 or some such, with only a decent trigger to contend with.

That's my advice and I'm sticking by it. If you find a police marksmanship instructor who has actual successful experience teaching people to shoot with guns with rotten triggers, by all means listen to him. Otherwise, get a good gun for learning, read the Hebard book, and see whether you can find some competent instruction, although there is at least some chance that the Hebard book will be sufficient.
 
A good shotgun shooter / sporting clays shooter , picking up a handgun for the first time will usually have some problems with the transition.. Same with a handgun or rifle shooter going to sporting clays.

Dry firing is some of the best practice you can do and it doesn't cost you anything. Safe firearm and safe direction , NO ammo in the area. A blank wall is fine,, work on sight aligment and trigger control. Be able to drop the hammer without moving the front sight.. Learn to call your shots dry firing.
( dry fire about 3 to 5 mins. a day for a week , then try the live ammo again and see if it makes a different, )

Find a handgun shooter / instructor that knows what he is doing,, rather than someone that thinks he knows what he is doing, for personal instruction / training.

( + 1, Rastoff , post #35 = excellent information / instruction )
 
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Practice, practice, practice. Move your target closer to more like 6 to 12 yards the distance that is used for your CPL test. The more range time you get the better you will get. Have fun.
 
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