Info on Llama 380 acp

[tbgunner88]

Does anybody have any info on the Llama 380 acp or that brand in general? My dad bought one from his neighbor for $100, it seems to be in great shape still in original box, the only problem is the magazine has been lost and the replacements are around $40 before shipping, my dad asked my opinion on it and I had never even heard of the brand, so I was hoping someone here might have a little info on it. I figured even if the gun is junk the 2 boxes of 380 acp and holster that he sold in the deal with the gun would only make the gun around a $40 mistake. Any info is appreciated.

 

[Erich]

Unlike the similar looking Colts and Stars, the Llama .380s are not locked breech copies of the 1911. My experience is that Llamas are kinda on the schlocky side, overall, and their 1911 copies have soft steel.

Edited: please see Cyrano's more informed post below for more precise information.

 

[Lee Barner]

good little pistols. made them in .32 acp and .22 lr. they are a miniature 1911. they take down just like the gov't .45. well worth the money. last one I had a few years ago I sold for 275.00 so the mag is worth the $40.00. lee

 

[mrrick]

I had a .22, the steel was so soft you could scrape it off with your thumbnail.

Junk, IMHO,

but for $100 it's probably a decent range gun, not for SD.

I replaced it with a Beretta 70S and never looked back.

 

[Watchdog]

In 1970, I bought a Llama .32 semi-auto from a fellow service member for fifty bucks. It looked exactly like a scaled down 1911. It was a decent little pistol and fairly accurate, and I was never concerned about soft steel. It fed hardball ammo without a hitch, shot after shot. You can still find them on the market, and I've seen a couple of intricately engraved ones for sale recently.

Llamas weren't top of the line guns, but I wouldn't classify them as junk. Far as I'm concerned, they're no worse than Rossi or Taurus. I can't remember what I did with mine...sold it, traded it, or what...but I kinda wish I still had it, just as a reminder of better, more simple times.

I'd keep your hundred-dollar Llama if I were you. Buy a mag. You won't find a decent Smith for a hundred bucks.

 

[gdnagle]

I have the full size .45 since the early 70's. Mine is accurate and has served me well. Spanish made, parts could be hard to come by if you need them. My mistake was not buying more magazines as 1911's don't work in mine. They are like everything else you can get a good one or a bad one so you might want to fire it and check reliability.

 

[Arik]

Their quality is all over the place. Lots of outsourcing for parts.

You won't find a decent Smith for under a $100 but that's because it's a better gun. Like saying I have a Yugo but I can't find a decent Corvette for under $500

 

[galena]

Over the years I have had two of them. First was a .380, I was in college and couldn't afford to feed it so traded it for a Colt Scout .22RF. Later I bought a new one in .22RF, paid $42.50 at Topperwains in San Antonio. I traded it straight across for a S&W 22/32 Kit gun, M-34. LLamas are not great guns but not always junk either. I would spring for a couple of $40 mags and hang onto it. Could be useful in a trade.

 

[alwslate]

I agree with the others, quality varied greatly over time. I have one
in .22 that I bought used in 1973. It's a great little pistol. It has a low
solid rib, walnut grips and a nice blued finish. I used to shoot it often
and have fired thousands of rounds through it. I kept records for a
while and put 2,000 rounds through it without one jam or misfire.
Later models had plastic grips, a vent rib and a finish that looked like
black paint and loosely fitting roughly machined parts. Their revolvers
are not worth house room in my experience.

 

[JDBoardman]

It all depends on which model Llama .380 you have. I have one, I believe it is a IIIa, that is a full-on scaled down 1911 with the classic Browning swinging link locked breech. With the exception of the plunger tube, which is held on by two machine screws rather than a swaged pin, the pistol duplicates the 1911. It was made, according to the date codes, in 1963. It has functioned absolutely reliabily in the years I have had it, handling hard ball, Gold Dots, Golden Sabers and handloaded rounds with HPX bullets. Other models use a blowback operating system, and do not seem as well machined or finished.

 

[kalei]

The Ecuadorian Air Force issued a Llama .380 called a Micro Max. Had one and it was a nice little pistol, someone offered me a fair price for it so I sold it, kinda wish I had kept it.

 

[Combat]

I have a .22 that's never been shot since it was purchased. Looks pretty well made to me, maybe I need to shoot it a couple of times.

 

[Watchdog]

I have a .22 that's never been shot since it was purchased. Looks pretty well made to me, maybe I need to shoot it a couple of times.

I like that. Funny thing...I've never liked a vent rib on any handgun, but for some reason, it looks strangely right on that pistol.

 

[Cyrano]

Llama 380s come in two forms. The original ones were locked breech and were line-for-line, part-for-part, copies of the Colt Government Model, except for the extractor. They were quite well made and held up well under extensive firing. Quality deteriorated a bit towards the end.

The later version was straight blowback. It had a heavier slide and a much stronger recoil spring. The recoil was heavier than the locked breech version. These aren't nearly as well finished as the earlier ones, and I think the steel was softer.

This one dates from about 1968. In the exploded view you can see the similiarity to the Colt design. It's a fun gun to shoot. I handload and cast my own bullets so it isn't much more expensive to shoot than a 22.

 

[2152hq]

The bunch of 'miniture' 1911 style LLama pistols date back to the 1930's.

At that time the gun in 380cal ,locked breech, no grip safety was the Model II.
They made the same gun but w/a grip safety and called it the Model III

These were both discontinued in the mid 50's sometime and replaced with the Model III-A. (380 cal)
This is the Model that causes a lot of confusion as it was made for about it's first 20yrs as a locked breech style pistol,,then as a blowback style breech. The change came in the 70's sometime but no change in the pistols Model number was made.
Also the earlier ones will still have the lanyard ring, plain slide and wooden grips of the Model II and III. Then a change over to vent rib slide, plastic grips, no lanyard ring. But with no real announcement or notice of style changes. Still the Model III-A.
(A Model II, III,or III-A are all cal 380acp only pistols)

There are other 380 (mini 1911) LLamas also, like the VI,,a short bbl'd version of the Model III-A.
The Model XIX,,an alloy frame version of the III-A.

The 32acp cal and the 22lr cal pistols both had their own unique Model numbers.
The Model I was the original 32acp version (blowback w/grip safety).
The 22LR version didn't debut till the mid 50's as the Model XV .

This long time production pistol (in all 3 calibers) was replaced with the blowback operated Micro-Max made in 32acp and 380 in the mid 90's.

One way to tell when it (or any Spanish pistol) was made (proofed) is to check the Spanish Auto Pistol proof mark 'triad'.
3 marks,,sometimes on the exposed part of the frame,,sometimes under the left grip panel.
The middle 'proof' is a date code. Began use in 1927.
Search 'Spanish Pistol proof date codes' and you'll find the list posted on several sights.

Llama pistols,,quality runs hot and cold and everything in between.
You really have to judge the individual piece.

add
Re: magazine replacement,,check to make sure if the pistol takes a wide floor plate (base) mag (late style) or narrow base (early style).
I'm not even sure the Llama pistols had the 2 different sizes,,seems like they did.
I may even have a 380 Llama magazine around. I'll check and get back.

 

[scott1970]

Some years ago I worked a suicide where a man blew his brains on the wall (literally) with a Llama .380. It worked great one time. Beyond that, I can't help you.

 

[model70hunter]

I once owned a pair of LLama 1911 types. a 9mm and a 45. Both worked very well. Since they were not an exact clone and magazines did not interchange many folks did not bother with them. This used pair had set in a gun shop until the dust on them was getting old enough to vote. I picked them up cheaply, both were fine guns. I found a guy who wanted a 9 and 45 and moved them along.

I remember reading a Col Charles Askins article mentioning he had and used LLamas. Probably picked them up in Spain when stationed there. If the Col used them I feel there was some merit to them.

 

[CajunBass]

I don't know anything about them, but I used to drool over them in the "Shooters Bible" when I was young. I don't think I've ever even seen a real one.

 

[AirForceShooter]

I've had one since 1966.

Always worked. I have no idea how many rounds through it.
was my CCW for a couple of decades.

AFS

 

[Texas Star]

The late John Wootters, Jr., a well known gun and hunting writer, got one, a .357 Magnum Martial model revolver. I think he came by it through some promotional visit involving one of his publishers. He was very demanding of quality and I doubt that he'd have bought a Spanish gun unless he had some special incentive.

But he told me that he was pleasantly surprised by the quality. I think it was out-of-time a little, but the same was then true of most US-made revolvers, inc. S&W's. This was probably in the 1970's, maybe about 1980. I suspect that he had a gunsmith fix the timing issue. He said that he was overall pleased by the quality.

That surprised me, for John was not a man to suffer bad quality products. He was very knowledgeable about guns and about wildlife. He was a consultant to the Houston zoo on Texas snakes and was also an avid enthusiast of WW II aircraft. His death a couple of years ago was a real loss, although he'd retired from writing after suffering a retinal detachment.

If he gave the Llama Martial .357 such a charitable review, at least some Llama guns must have been good. I should note that he told me this on the 'phone; I don't know if he reviewed the gun in print. He usually tried to avoid writing typical gun reviews, because he didn't like to risk stepping on some editor's or ad manager's toes or an advertiser's, if he was candid. One gun that he did review, because he really liked it, was the Winchester M-70 Classic Featherweight .30-06. I thought that I'd throw that in, in case anyone here might be wondering about getting one. It's also one of my favorite rifles.

John also used to load Llama and Star locked breech .380's hotter than usual, if memory serves.
He wouldn't have done that unless he trusted at least those particular guns. He was a very knowledgeable reloader.

Chas. Askins told me that the Spanish pistols were pretty fair, if not as well finished or as consistent as US equivalents.
He had been US military attaché in Spain and knew Spanish guns quite well. He owned some of their better shotguns, like the AyA copy of the German Merkel guns.

My only exposure to Spanish arms was to a Star 9mm, Model S. It was on loan from the importer and I fired just a few boxes of ammo in it. It felt very good in the hand and fed well and was accurate, more so than a typical Colt .45 auto. I thought of buying it, but was alarmed by finding what looked like scratches by a nail on the underside of the slide. I was afraid that the gun had failed inspection in some Third World country and been sold as surplus to Interarms. The PR man didn't want to say from just where they'd gotten that batch.

I've since read that this marking may have been usual in several Spanish makers, to let assemblers see the number marked, like an X, to keep parts from a given gun together as they were processed.

I don't know if it might also have been their way to check hardness, as more advanced countries use Rockwell test needles.

Spanish pistols, inc. those by Star and Llama, some marked as Ruby, were bought by France in WW I and these and the Astra brand were also bought by Nazi Germany to supplement their other sources. The best were generally conceded to be by Astra and Star.

I have a baseball cap from Star, given to me at the SHOT show one year by a rep from that firm. And I've stayed at a motel more than 50 miles from home and I carry a briefcase.

That is the extent to which I can be deemed an expert on Spanish guns. But the story of the Llama brand is so well known that I think they were "iffy" but okay if you got a good one. In other words, somewhat of a dart toss as to quality. Personally, I might buy a Star. I wouldn't buy a Llama.

Oh: Again, this is about Star; not Llama. But a shooting range here rented their Model 30S DA 9mm autos. I called that range after reading an Interarms ad about those guns exceeding 100, 000 rounds in rental use and holding up fine. They confirmed the quality and said that Interarms was very good about service if ever needed. I was impressed. But Interarms is now out of business and parts are often hard to locate.

I'm impressed by Cyrano's post here, as I usually am.