Info sought for .22/32 Heavy Frame Target

[Arman4461]

I purchased this .22/32 HFT yesterday, spent 8 hours taking it apart enough to thoroughly clean & lubricate it, and verify serial and assembly numbers. It was nasty, except for minor hard grease and oil/powder gunk under the side plate. The cylinder would barely rotate. I will sight it in today, but would like to know as much as I can about it. Seller believes it is a Bekeart model?
What I Do Know:
Serial #364306 appears on the Front Strap, Cylinder Face, Under the Extractor star, Under the Barrel at the bore area and on the Right Grip inside surface in what looks to be faint grease or pencil, hard to see unless under magnification or in poor lighting.
Assembly Number 5353 appears on the Yoke and Frame Support for the Yoke, and in the groove milled on the inner flat of the side plate.
Blue 6" barrel appears to have a replacement Paine bead Front Sight, poorly installed by Mr. Ham Fist.
Rear Sight is adjustable with U-Notch blade.
Rear Sight is a wonderful piece of fine-tolerance milling work, fully functional. Hardest part with these guns is finding the proper size screwdrivers for the extremely tiny slots in the small sight screws.
Trademark is small version below the thumb latch.
USA stamp is not evident on either side of the frame.
Patent Date June 5, 1917 on bottom of Left stock.
Back-strap is of Rebated style.
Stocks have Diamonds and checkering, but no emblems.
S/A Trigger pull is crisp @ 3.6#
D/A Trigger is long and consistent, but heavy @10# plus.
I took pictures when I had it apart for cleaning, as good as my old Sony digital could take, anyway. Gun's previous owner(s) were ham-handed with pin punches at the front sight and at the Firing Pin retaining pin, but the screws were unmolested and from the wear on the stocks, the gun was much-used and while dirty from use, has very minor rust splotches with some holster wear.
I'll post some 25 yard Bullseye targets after I use up the last of my Tenex and some SK+ today.
Any info regarding this pistol would be appreciated. The history of these old revolvers is almost as entertaining as shooting them.
Anyone know where I can get a set of target or combat grips to fit this frame size? I already tried out every K-frame grip I have, no joy of course. If I have to go custom, I will if I can find someone to make set. My hands are way too big for this frame size. It isn't much larger than my Top-Break 4th gen .38. And the folks in the 20's thought these guns were big?
Thanks for everyone's help getting info on this and my other antiquities!
Arman

 

[DWalt]

About as much help I can give you is that I have listed a .22/32 with SN 364316 which was shipped in 10/1921. It would not have a USA stamp at that time. It is an I frame, not a K frame. Grips on it are correct for that time. It is not a Bekeart, or at least not an original Bekeart. They were much earlier.

If you are serious about target shooting, I'd suggest getting a more recent revolver.

 

[mrcvs]

The patent date of 1917 on the stocks tells you this couldn’t be a Bekeart Model as those shipped in 1911. Your revolver would therefore have to be 1917 or after, unless the stocks were replaced, which is unlikely. Also, Bekeart models would have a number stamped at the base of the left stock.

Your serial number suggests a ship date circa 1921 +/- a year.

 

[Arman4461]

About as much help I can give you is that I have listed a .22/32 with SN 364316 which was shipped in 10/1921. It would not have a USA stamp at that time. It is an I frame, not a K frame. Grips on it are correct for that time. It is not a Bekeart, or at least not an original Bekeart. They were much earlier.

DWalt,
Typo on your s/n?
It is 364306, not 316. Probably mine was before lunch!

 

[DWalt]

The one I have listed is 364316. It is not yours.

 

[Arman4461]

The patent date of 1917 on the stocks tells you this couldn’t be a Bekeart Model as those shipped in 1911. Your revolver would therefore have to be 1917 or after, unless the stocks were replaced, which is unlikely. Also, Bekeart models would have a number stamped at the base of the left stock.

Your serial number suggests a ship date circa 1921 +/- a year.

I told him it probably was too late, and the grips were wrong. I was more interested in a shooter, and it was a two-fer with a Model 66 snub, so price wasn't bad for the two, considering the current environment. Off to try it out!
Thanks for the help on all this mind-numbing goodness. I look forward to some interesting history reading asap.
Arman

 

[mrcvs]

What do you have invested in this revolver?

 

[Hondo44]

That's a nice one. It's had some rework, probably a barrel replacement.

The barrel and extractor knob is a post WWII style. Is there a star following the serial # on the front grip strap?

And is there a date stamped on the left side of the grip frame under the grip?

The new barrel would have been stamped with the gun's serial # on the underside when replaced at the factory. Can you post a photo of the barrel serial # so we can see if it's the original font or a later style font?

 

[Arman4461]

What do you have invested in this revolver?

Considering what the model 66-3 snub I bought in the twofer deal is worth, looks like the $550-$600 range for the .22/32. I shot it today. It took me a second to remember that the elevation screw works in reverse compared to the one on the 66-3. Before I had to hurry home, I was able to get the gun sighted in at 25 yards. I should say before my 20/10 vision was reduced to about 20/500 from trying to focus on those tiny sights, while that long trigger took its sweet time getting off the sear.
The barrel liked the Wolf Match Extra better than any of the 6 other brands of SV ammo I tried in it.
I shall remember to pack my double-ended toothbrush tomorrow, since this gun has extremely tight tolerances, especially for a non-CNC made pistol.
The person who fit the parts on this gun knew their business well. The extractor star lasted 100 or so rounds before the tell-tale cylinder full of crud kept the gun out of battery. Not too much different than my K-22's, but the cylinder star is so small it takes less crud to lock it up.

 

[Arman4461]

That's a nice one. It's had some rework, probably a barrel replacement.

The barrel and extractor knob is a post WWII style. Is there a star following the serial # on the front grip strap?

And is there a date stamped on the left side of the grip frame under the grip?

The new barrel would have been stamped with the gun's serial # on the underside when replaced at the factory. Can you post a photo of the barrel serial # so we can see if it's the original font or a later style font?

*
No star near the Serial, or anywhere else. Left side of grip frame has E4 and 93. E4 is in front of the grip stud, 93 is below the Mainspring. If the picture of the barrel's Serial isn't clear enough, let me know. I can try some lighting change during the day to get better clarity. I look forward to the review!

 

[Rubone]

Nice find for you! Here is mine , a few years older than yours (253800) but still not a Bekeart and a definite shooter. Broken hammer spur too. Anyone have an extra??

 

[mrcvs]

Considering what the model 66-3 snub I bought in the twofer deal is worth, looks like the $550-$600 range for the .22/32.

Okay, good, that’s respectable. I was asking because I was afraid you might have paid a Bekeart price for it as the owner believed it to be a Bekeart Model .22/32 HFT.

 

[Arman4461]

Thanks to the forum members, I had the serial number range, knew what the grips should have looked like, and when he said he had a letter for it, but didn’t produce it, I just considered it an interesting fun gun to fix up and shoot. It fulfills my expectations in that regard, and as a bonus, it ain’t plastic.

 

[rct269]

A little something for those tiny sight screws-----------------

Lowes Precision Screwdriver Set (Kobalt #0525844)

This is a 10 tool set, 4 of which are for slotted screws, 2 of which very nicely fit one or the other of every pre-war S&W sight screw made----with the possible exception of those on the Ladysmith (which I have no memory of). Don't be put off by the very low price ($10-$12), I have a set in use for 10 years or more----still going strong. The saving grace of these tools is they have handles big enough to get a hold of.

Chapter Last: In the latter part of the pre-war years, S&W saw fit to give some worthwhile guidance as to setting the sights: One full turn of a screw changes the point of impact 1" for each 10 yards of range. I've chosen to assume that formula applies to all S&W pre-war adjustable sights. No one has told me different.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Mbrgr1]

Here is mine...

It has had an extensive factory rework at least once, replaced barrel and possibly even the frame! I am waiting on factory records to see what happened. Shipped June 4th 1921 to Walter G Clark Company, Omaha Nebraska.


Fine little revolvers and very fun to shoot! Nice grab!


Pic overload!

 

[DCWilson]

Those are not the wrong stocks for your gun's year of manufacture. The stocks specified for the early years of .22/32 target production were the two screw extension stocks that covered the entire backstrap, but when the company introduced the .32 and .38 Regulation Police models in 1917, they specified the new RP stocks for their .32 RP Target models. They also specified that form (called in some company literature "small square butt stocks" in contrast to the two-screw "large square butt stocks") for the .22/32 Target for a few years, but returned to the large square butt stocks for the .22/32 about 1922 or 1923.

The June 5, 2017 patent date refers to the stock mounting design that involved the rebated frame and the carefully cut-to-match small square butt (i.e., RP) stocks.

Nice gun, good imputed price, excellent score. Congratulations.

EDITED TO ADD: I believe I misunderstood the OP's comment about "wrong stocks" in post No. 6 above. In context, he was not implying that the revolver should have had the two-screw stocks. I now see he was addressing the seller's assertion that this was a Bekeart, for which the existing RP stocks would clearly have been incorrect. Apologies for not seeing that in the first place.

 

[DCWilson]

Nice find for you! Here is mine , a few years older than yours (253800) but still not a Bekeart and a definite shooter. Broken hammer spur too. Anyone have an extra??

Spare I-frame hammers for the relatively small numbers of .22 caliber revolvers built on that frame before 1922 are rarely -- I suspect I am using a weasel word for never -- seen. The .22/32s had a frame-mounted firing pin, so the hammers need a flat face. In a pinch, you can get a .32 hammer of the appropriate vintage, unpin and toss the hammer nose, and fill in the slot with a scrap of steel. Or just immobilize the hammer nose somehow and grind off the protruding part.

I don't know that I-frame hammer design changed between 1903 and 1940, but bear in mind that some I-frame hammers in that range might not fit and function as wished in a 1916 .22/32.

 

[JSR III]

Those are not the wrong stocks. The stocks specified for the early years of .22/32 target production were the two screw extension stocks that covered the entire backstrap, but when the company introduced the .32 and .38 Regulation Police models in 1917, they specified the new RP stocks for their .32 RP Target models. They also specified that form (called in some company literature "small square butt stocks" in contrast to the two-screw "large square butt stocks") for the .22/32 Target for a few years, but returned to the large square butt stocks for the .22/32 about 1922 or 1923.

Although the use of the regulation police stocks was prevalent during this time frame until the return of the 2 screw extension stocks, yours have silver medallions (at least how they appear on my monitor) and those don't show up for another 10 years. Also in this time frame the gun would have a large button size extractor rod knob whereas this style was still about 9 years away.