Inspecting once fired brass

[richarwi]

I have decided to begin reloading for my 9 mm and 38 spl handguns. I am retired and have the time to prepare carefully for this. I have read all of "A, B, C's of Reloading", as well as all of Lyman's 49th and Speer's #14 as they relate to general info on reloading. I have purchased a tumbler, a digital scale and an analog scale, and other accessories. I will complete the prep process when I finally purchase the Dillon 550B, case gauge, dies, etc. from Dillon. I have determined my first load for my three 9 mm pistols (S&W M&P 9C, Kahr CM9, and Sig P226) and bought a hundred 124 gr. Precision Delta FMJ bullets. I intend to hit a gun show this weekend and hopefully get the needed powder and primers without a hazmat fee.

I don't take this less than seriously as I don't wish to damage myself or any of the five handguns I have purchased in the last year. In addition to the texts mentioned above, I have read a bunch from forums on the internet trying to learn all I can on the subject. I thought I was in good shape until this evening when I encountered a problem I couldn't resolve from my usual reading sources, so I thought I'd ask you guys.

I was sorting my tumbled 9 mm brass (factory loads shot once by me) according to headstamp. I noticed that a small percentage of my Federal brass from factory (Walmart) rounds had bulges close to the head. I read all I could find about this on the net and in the manuals, and it seems that a certain amount of this is to be expected and will be handled OK via the resizing process. To investigate a bit more, I field stripped my three 9 mm pistols and dropped some of the once-fired cases into the chambers of the barrels. I quickly found that not only did the once-fired cases with slight bulges fail to cleanly fit the chambers, but others failed to as well - even though there was no easy, visual evidence of expansion in them. This was true for Winchester and other brass as well, but not to the extent I saw it in Federal brass. There was some expansion in some of my once-fired 38 special cases, also, but not nearly as much as in the 9 mm cases. I suppose that, especially due to the taper on the 9 mm case, all once-fired 9 mm cases are left in a state where the cases are expanded. That's what the resizing is for. But how much expansion (prior to reloading) is acceptable? Expansion is understandable, but I was surprised to literally see bulging. Why is there any bulging near the head as these are factory loads? What about the cases whose bulge is actually visible? Will the resizing die handle this? At what point in the reloading process do I make the decision as to keep or toss a given piece of brass? After resizing? Or should I toss the small percentage of Federal cases now just because there is a visible bulge?

Here is a pic showing a Federal case with the bulge and another brand case where no such bulge is apparent.



Thanks for any help you can give......

 

[blujax01]

First, welcome! There are some pretty smart hombres around here (not me!) who should be able to positively answer your questions but as a bit of a novice, I will share my experiences.
I see that bulge in the range brass I scrounge all the time. I use them anyway as the sizing process straightens them right out. No issues at all.

 

[Rule3]

The cases are expanded due to they have been fired. Both the mouth and sides. Your full length sizer will put them back to spec.

You need to resize them before they will fit the chamber. Are both the pictured empty brass from the same gun?? Chambers are different.

If they are your own once fired brass, if it was me, I would just resize and go about reloading. Load a few dummy rounds (no primer or powder) and then see how they fit. Take the barrel out of one gun and drop it in. The rounds should plop in and fall out when the barrel is turned over. A slight taper crimp is needed on 9mm to remove the flare made to seat the bullet.

 

[Titegroups]

The cases expand to fill and seal the chamber, if the barrel has any areas that dont fully support the case near the feed ramp the case will bulge in that area, you see that with brass fired from glocks for instance. As long as your chambers are within spec you shouldnt have any problems, the more the cases expand the shorter the case life will be due to work hardening from being expanded and resized and you'll end up seeing case splits. Looks like you may have considerable differences in chamber sizes between guns. Use your calipers.

 

[richarwi]

Thanks, guys, for your replies.

Rule3 asked:

Are both the pictured empty brass from the same gun??

I doubt it, but frankly I don't know. A couple months ago, when I started to seriously consider reloading, I just began to save all my fired brass. I did not separate the brass according to which of my three 9 mm's had fired the brass. Of course, now I will begin to watch that.

I thought maybe someone would know about the chamber support situation as it pertains to my particular pistols. The sig P226 has good support I think I read. i don't know about my M&P 9C or my Kahr CM9.

 

[venomballistics]

I'd think that the Kahr would be the most likely gun to be glocking your brass. as compact as they are, they'd be most in need of chamber cheats to coax them into feeding.
Another possibility is that your brass stockpile is not entirely yours if your shooting at a public range.
as you reload and ultimately shoot more, you'll find yourself with your M&P and Sig at the range more than your Kahr. These ultra compacts almost never gain the title of favorite shooter if you have a choice. This will help keep your brass in good shape longer.

 

[crankyoldlady]

Even after resizing, some of my .357 cases will have a very slight bulge remaining. but they chamber and fire just fine.

 

[Rule3]

I have the Sig and PM 9 they are fully supported. You do not need to separate the brass by gun used. Some folks do separate by head stamp, I don't for range shooting handguns. I do for bolt action rifles as I neck size those. If you are really into anal accuracy I guess head stamp sorting may help a bit in handguns. I can't tell the difference.

 

[crankyoldlady]

Sorting straight wall cases by headstamp (range target loads) is a waste of time.

 

[richarwi]

Thanks again to all who replied.........

 

[hijinx]

I just did an internet search for the exact same issue/question regarding the bulge in .40 S&W cases. Thank you for the info

 

[OKFC05]

I load a lot of "range trash brass" and offer some tips.
1. .38 cases are among the easiest and most forgiving: load them until they split with no ill effect on the gun. I have some that the headstamp is illegible.
2. 9mm can be grossly expanded from a "jugged" chamber in a competition gun and still size right back down with a normal sizer die. Some foreign 9mm brass is junk, assymetric and thin spots. WATCH OUT FOR CRIMPED PRIMERS, which pockets have to be swaged or reamed before reloading.
3. "Jugged" or "smiley" .40 S&W cases from some competition guns and some unsupported chambers are a PIA, and do not always size back down with a normal sizing die. A push through die will solve this, but must be done prior to reloading.
4. For normal range use, my pistol case sorting consists of "serviceable" and "recycle bucket." It's not like shooting long range rifle.

 

[dmar]

I just did an internet search for the exact same issue/question regarding the bulge in .40 S&W cases. Thank you for the info

Hey Hijink, welcome to the forum. To clarify a bit, is the bulge in your .40 S&W case just from the normal expansion that a case makes when fire formed to your chamber, or is there a small/more pronounced bulge toward the base of the case? Are you firing the.40 in a Glock?

If yes to these questions, look up "Glock bulge" and go from there. The Glock bulge is much different from normal case expansion that happens when the round is fired, and can be more problematic when reloading...

 

[Alk8944]

richirwi,

You are mistaken on one point, and that is some fired brass is bulged and some is not! All fired cases are bulged to some degree, just some are more obvious. A minimum dimension case fired in a maximum chamber will have a distinct bulge, while a maximum dimension case fired in a minimum diameter chamber will exhibit very minimum noticeable expansion, but it is still measurable.

This is why cases are sized to begin with, to reduce them all to a dimension less than as-fired, and to reduce the case mouth enough so that it will hold the bullet. As others have said, there is no point in trying fired cases in any chamber as there is a very high likelihood that they will not freely enter the chamber, even if they were fired in that same barrel! Many chambers are slightly excentric and unless the case is positioned in exactly the same orientation as it was fired it could stick a bit.

Regardless what brand dies you have just full-length size all your 9mm brass and probably everything will work just fine. If you do have a few that will not freely enter your chamber (plunk test), and you are sure it is not because the bullets are seated too long or are binding in the throat for some reason, buy a Lee 9mm Carbide Factory Crimp die and use it to post-size the base of those cartridges that won't plunk test. As a general rule the Lee CFC die only sizes the very base of the case, about 1/16" long, that often is not sized be the standard carbide dies, and that is usually all it takes for everything to work just fine! I am not as big a Lee fan as many on this forum, but some of their products are as good, or even better, as those made by the majors. Of these the Carbide Factory Crimp die is one of their finest products, even though it doesn't work well with lead bullets in revolver cartridges always. In 9mm and .40 S&W the CFC die is practically indispensible!

Sort brass or not as you wish, it is not necessary but never causes harm. Forget any crimped military cases! There is nothing basically wrong with them, but as prevalent as pick-up 9mm cases are there is simply no reason to do the extra work to remove the crimp. I only have pistols in 9mm and .40 S&W because in a couple of years I picked up, literally, thousands of both calibers that were left behind by non-reloaders! I finally bought guns in both calibers just to use the brass! Since retiring from police work I have probably shot fewer than 300 factory 9mm, but have probably loaded over 10,000 in pick-up brass. I sort, but only because I like to, and I have thousands of Winchester and Federal, as well as several hundred R-P and mixed odds-and-ends. The odd cases go in the "throwaway" bin, and there are several hundred of them. They get loaded and carried when I don't want to chase brass!!!

 

[rwsmith]

Don't plunk test.....

Don't 'plunk test' the case in a barrel or gauge before you have resized it. Minor bulges are no problem and the die can iron it out.

The early designs of some pistols, (especially .40 cal and 10mm) had large areas of the chamber than didn't support the case well. One was a cutout for the feed ramp. If a case is one of those, badly bulged or bulged in one spot, toss them.

If a case is resized and bulged again and again a lot in shooting, the case will eventually work harden and be more prone to split. Cases can be annealed but it's not worth the trouble with 9mm brass.

PS: You sound like you are really on the right track with learning, preparation and asking questions as needed. Good luck and happy loading.

 

[Nevada Ed]

The cases are from three pistols.........
Take a few bad ones and see if they will fit in one of your pistols.
I am guessing one pistol has a rather large chamber and one at least has a smaller chamber. The reason some cases do not fit in at least one of your pistols.

The back of the case looks supported........which is a good thing.
The last 3/4 being swollen, means to me a forgiving chamber.

I have shot a Kahr PM9 3" and did not have any case swelling or lack of head support. However it did like to ding up the case mouths now and then.
It liked the 115 and 124gr plated RN bullets but a long 147gr Speer TMJ at 1.165" barely fit the magazine and did not feed well.

All cases should be sized before reloading so I see no problems ahead and the belling will fix any mouth dings.....
Good shooting.