Interesting Article

[sambuh]

No, I didn't. Waste of time. I've been known to bash the 380 at every opportunity.

To each their own and this is strictly my opinion. But I've heard all the excuses as to why some carry a 380. And that's what they are, excuses.

Frankly, I don't care what others do. I'm just sick and tired of those that feel that they need to justify the reasons why they carry a useless caliber and they know it.

I think the point is that its not a useless caliber... Per the article;

" If I had to choose between a micro 9mm and a .380 in the same size and weight class, I might choose the smaller round if the difference in controllability were significant. In the case of the test gun I mentioned earlier, I'd frankly rather have a .380! Yes, it was that bad. Yet the gun sells well and the manufacturer reports they can't keep up with demand. I'm positive that many of those buyers are making a bad decision, and probably for the wrong reasons.

Before you sneer at that lowly mousegun, stop and really think about the job it is intended to do. Understand the real task: to get combat-accurate hits, with an effective bullet, on target as fast as you can get them. In some cases, that "little" .380 might be better at the task than anything else."


I think that's a valid point on so many different fronts and why its an interesting point to bring up in the first place! Something so many gun buyers overlook.

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[Kanewpadle]

LOL! No need to hear or read anyone else's opinion to form your own, eh?

The guy who wrote the article is a SHOOTING INSTUCTOR. He's got no skin in the game on the 9mm vs. 380 argument. In fact, he used to be in your camp! It was only after working with a lot of students that he came to the conclusions he puts forth in his article.

He was open minded enough, to allow years of experience teaching people to shoot, to change his mind. Before you discount his opinion you might at least read the article.

A closed mind gathers no (new) knowledge.

I think the point is that its not a useless caliber... Per the article;

" If I had to choose between a micro 9mm and a .380 in the same size and weight class, I might choose the smaller round if the difference in controllability were significant. In the case of the test gun I mentioned earlier, I'd frankly rather have a .380! Yes, it was that bad. Yet the gun sells well and the manufacturer reports they can't keep up with demand. I'm positive that many of those buyers are making a bad decision, and probably for the wrong reasons.

Before you sneer at that lowly mousegun, stop and really think about the job it is intended to do. Understand the real task: to get combat-accurate hits, with an effective bullet, on target as fast as you can get them. In some cases, that "little" .380 might be better at the task than anything else."


I think that's a valid point on so many different fronts and why its an interesting point to bring up in the first place! Something so many gun buyers overlook.

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You guys miss the point entirely which is usually the case for those that carry such a caliber.

The point is that the excuses as to why people carry a 380. They don't want to be bothered with strapping on a holster or dressing around a gun. They want simple and easy.

ONE instructor. ONE guy stands up for the 380 and you guys buy off on it.

Depending on the circumstances most instructors will recommend 38spl or 9mm and above. Not the 380.

Again, it's merely my opinion. If you guys are comfortable with your choice then go for it.

Case closed.

 

[Protected One]

You guys miss the point entirely which is usually the case for those that carry such a caliber.

The point is that the excuses as to why people carry a 380. They don't want to be bothered with strapping on a holster or dressing around a gun. They want simple and easy.

ONE instructor. ONE guy stands up for the 380 and you guys buy off on it.

Depending on the circumstances most instructors will recommend 38spl or 9mm and above. Not the 380.

Again, it's merely my opinion. If you guys are comfortable with your choice then go for it.

Case closed.

You really ought to read the article if you're going to comment on this thread.

 

[Rick_A]

Between a micro nine and mousegun .380, I will always choose a five shot .38

Most "jams" I see with pocket .380's are user induced from new shooters letting the gun pivot their wrists.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

The article contains far more research and technical knowledge than I can claim. My experience with the .380 is quite limited and, admittedly, anecdotal. I was shot (upper leg) with a .380 at near point blank range years ago and I can report both the bad (hurt pretty good at the time) and the good (back for duty within 48 hours).

Getting shot with anything is one of those things that just stop being fun the very first time. I would not willingly repeat the experience.

On the other hand, I would not choose the .380 as my primary defensive sidearm.

 

[Protected One]

The article contains far more research and technical knowledge than I can claim. My experience with the .380 is quite limited and, admittedly, anecdotal. I was shot (upper leg) with a .380 at near point blank range years ago and I can report both the bad (hurt pretty good at the time) and the good (back for duty within 48 hours).

Getting shot with anything is one of those things that just stop being fun the very first time. I would not willingly repeat the experience.

On the other hand, I would not choose the .380 as my primary defensive sidearm.

A neighbor had the exact same experience with a .45. Back to work in two days. He was not law enforcment though...walked in on a burgular.

 

[manyguns]

Why do I think these articles are a waste of time? All the following commentary in this thread points to the same conclusion. Everyone chooses what to carry for their own reasons. Concealment versus power. Practical accuracy again versus ease of carry. After all the discussion here everyone still finds their own solution. There are so many variables in the final results of a shooting that any conclusion can be justified.

 

[sambuh]

You really ought to read the article if you're going to comment on this thread.

^^^^^ yes


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[sambuh]

Why do I think these articles are a waste of time? All the following commentary in this thread points to the same conclusion. Everyone chooses what to carry for their own reasons. Concealment versus power. Practical accuracy again versus ease of carry. After all the discussion here everyone still finds their own solution. There are so many variables in the final results of a shooting that any conclusion can be justified.

You make a valid point, but I found the data and points he made, a little easy to consider in deciding to carry my little TCP


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[shouldazagged]

Between a micro nine and mousegun .380, I will always choose a five shot .38

My sentiments exactly.

 

[islamoradamark]

bottom line ur gunna carry what u think is best for u

 

[Protected One]

Why do I think these articles are a waste of time? All the following commentary in this thread points to the same conclusion. Everyone chooses what to carry for their own reasons. Concealment versus power. Practical accuracy again versus ease of carry. After all the discussion here everyone still finds their own solution. There are so many variables in the final results of a shooting that any conclusion can be justified.

You are correct in saying that "everyone chooses what to carry for their own reasons", however, those "reasons" can be influenced by valid information that one previously did not have - thus...I think these articles are helpful to some and informative (at the least) to others.

 

[SMSgt]

When it comes down to opinions, everyone thinks they're right and all others are wrong.

 

[MOONDAWG]

When it comes down to opinions, everyone thinks they're right and all others are wrong.

Hrump, Hrump, Hrump.

 

[sambuh]

Hrump, Hrump, Hrump.

Lol


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[manyguns]

There is a lot to be accomplished with a standard velocity 9mm. versus the +P versions we so commonly find. I did reread the article for the third time & still found the single "study" inconclusive. I understand the fact that the smaller pistols are hard to control at all, much less at speed. I assume that people who hope to defend themselves with any pistol would spend the ammo needed to find out what the limitations of that particular handgun are. I have never bought into the idea that a 7 yard shot would be all that I needed to be capable of.
I had a little Kel Tec .380. It did it's best work while remaining in my pocket. That pistol went down the road when I actually tried to shoot it at even 7 yards. My big hands found that the Kahr PM9 was as small as I could go. But that pistol gave me what I wanted out to 30 yards. The bottom line is find your own level of comfort with your carry gun.

 

[WCCPHD]

The first rule of a gun fight is to have a gun.

For this reason a .380 on your person is infinitely better than a 9MM/40/45 at home.

I have carried a gun almost every day since first becoming a law enforcement officer in 1978. I have carried 380, 9MM, 40, 45, 38, and 357 (as issued/approved) duty/backup weapons. I have also been known to carry a 10MM, 44 special or a 44 Magnum when hunting or when on my farm.

I am retired now, but still a sworn reserve officer. I carry a .45 when I work, usually one day per month. I am qualified with a 380, 9MM, 357 and 45. Most of the time these days I carry a Kahr 380 and I am confident in my decision; however, I feel being retired and now being able to pick and choose those areas where I go and having situational awareness adds to this confidence.

I don't want to get into an argument about weapon types or caliber. I just want to make the point that having a gun on your person is much better than not having one.

 

[BC38]

You guys miss the point entirely which is usually the case for those that carry such a caliber.

The point is that the excuses as to why people carry a 380. They don't want to be bothered with strapping on a holster or dressing around a gun. They want simple and easy.

ONE instructor. ONE guy stands up for the 380 and you guys buy off on it.

Depending on the circumstances most instructors will recommend 38spl or 9mm and above. Not the 380.

Again, it's merely my opinion. If you guys are comfortable with your choice then go for it.

Case closed.

There is a difference between a REASON and an EXCUSE. And in this "case" the only thing closed is your mind.

As the author points out, not everyone can properly control the current crop of micro-9's. And it isn't necessarily due to their "limp-wristing" them either. The small grips of many of these little 9mm's makes it just as hard for big (strong) hands to get a proper purchase on them as it is for smaller hands to wrap around the handle of a double-stacked SIG. He didn't say which compact 9 he was talking about, but he stated that with one of them that he tested NOBODY at the range that day could make a quick, accurate follow-up shot. Several different people tried and failed.

His main point is that two quick, well placed shots from a .380 are going to be more effective than one on-target shot and one "flier" from a 9mm.

If your hands are sized such that you can control whatever compact 9 you carry well enough to get two or three rapid, accurate shots, then GREAT! Good for you - you have chosen the right gun FOR YOU.

If however, your hands are big, or small enough that you CAN'T do that, but you CAN with the lesser recoil of a .380 in the same sized package, then maybe THAT is the right choice for you. Saying that what works for you is the only right answer and anything else is "making excuses" is simply closed minded and short sighted.

 

[Ransom]

There is a difference between a REASON and an EXCUSE. And in this "case" the only thing closed is your mind... Saying that what works for you is the only right answer and anything else is "making excuses" is simply closed minded and short sighted.

THANK YOU for explaining this. I've been wanting to write something along those lines, but you said it better than I could. I'm tired of some people making excuses for why they won't even consider the merits of a .380 pistol.

And instead of posting to a thread that the article is pointless or that .380's are useless, how about explaining your point of view in your first post? To do otherwise is simply pointless and useless.

 

[shouldazagged]

My hands just would not fit a Kel-Tec P11. Couldn't shoot it accurately to save my life, which ultimately was the point. I've never tried any other sub-compact 9mm.

I carry a steel .38 Special snubby. So far it has worked fine for me and I trust it. But as my hands become more gnarled and painful/insensitive due to arthritis, I may have to rethink my choice.

If it comes to that and a .380 is what will work for me, so be it. If it's .32 ACP or 9X18 or even .25 ACP, so be it. I will be armed with something for my protection. A mouse gun I could shoot adequately well would beat hell out of a furled umbrella.

Declaring .380 "useless" seems a pretty narrow view to me. May be useless for you, but could be a lifesaver for me one day.