Interesting Winchester Model 54 or 70?

[jvettman]

I recently inherited my childhood hunting rifle and have discovered some strange things about it. While the barrel is stamped a model 54 (although the stamping looks iffy) it has a manufacture date of 1948, it has a pre war model 70 bolt w/safety etched with a matching serial and the stock has been modified for it. It has a low serial number and has no A plus the carrier is mounted to the bottom plate from the very front lobe of the carrier...something not done on a model 70 but no Schnabel stock.

I am assuming the answer is this was probably sent back to Winchester and was modified by them...but if anyone has any other ideas I would love to hear them

 

[Big Cholla]

IMHO, it is a straightforward Model 54 with a replacement bolt or the original bolt was modified. You mentioned that the stock had been 'modified' for the bolt handle. That is a sure give away.

That is a great old hunting rifle and should be a valued heirloom in your family forever..........

 

[model70hunter]

I recently inherited my childhood hunting rifle and have discovered some strange things about it. While the barrel is stamped a model 54 (although the stamping looks iffy) it has a manufacture date of 1948, it has a pre war model 70 bolt w/safety etched with a matching serial and the stock has been modified for it. It has a low serial number and has no A plus the carrier is mounted to the bottom plate from the very front lobe of the carrier...something not done on a model 70 but no Schnabel stock.

I am assuming the answer is this was probably sent back to Winchester and was modified by them...but if anyone has any other ideas I would love to hear them

Not sure how you come up with 1948. The SN would make it a 1925 model 54 or a 1037 Model 70.

The rifle may be a Model 54. If so The receiver was made in 1925. Is there a date stamp on the bottom of the barrel close to the action? Being a 54 bbl, it should be prewar.

The Model 70 is the model 54 with many refinements. There wasn't much difference between them at the end of the 54.

I've read some early Model 70's used 54 bbls, but have not seen one.

Most pre war guns were not made for scope use and the bolts were different.

The Model 70 NRA type sporter stock was used on the model 54's at the end for them.

Early model 54's had a 2 piece firing pin that was a little fragile, it was changed to a one piece but I do not remember the date.

Your gun looks to have the NRA stock which is odd with low 54 SN.

If that is a model 70 SN it is a prewar gun, 1937 I believe. It has the pre war safety like my 1st year Super Grade in Govt '06.

The other option was, someone put a new model 54 barrel on the gun to replace one of the worthless ones of the era, like a 7mm or a 300 savage etc.

 

[30-30remchester]

It has been said that with the rush to use scopes on rifles, the model 54 had 2 problems that made an after thought scope installation difficult. Both problems were with the bolt. The bolt handle was turned down and would not have enough clearance without very high rings. The second problem was the safety would not work with a scope. I have heard you could send your rifle back to Winchester and they would fit a new model 70 bolt on your 54 thus eliminating the problems. I have seen 2 model 54's with a model 70 bolts. I would like to see the underside of the bolt. The 54's had a cut for the bolt stop which was the trigger. I am curious if Winchester milled out this stop, which they about had to do, or if they had another modified bolt stop scheme.

 

[jvettman]

What I meant by 1948 was the barrel date, its stamped on the bottom..but I didn't remember it correctly, the pic below show it as 46.. I do believe the receiver is a 54 and from 1925 and I base that on the location of the forward mount screw for the receiver.

As for the bolt, it looks milled out to me and the serial number is in that milled spot, I have included a pic of that too.

 

[alwslate]

The bottom metal looks like standard mod 54. The trigger guard and
floorplate are folded sheet metal. The receiver has the gas vent hole
in the right side of the ring and the matte top surface that were mod
70 features.

 

[Texas Star]

Well, the trigger guard is sure from a M-54. That on the M-70 is much nicer.

 

[Texas Star]

Not sure how you come up with 1948. The SN would make it a 1925 model 54 or a 1037 Model 70.

The rifle may be a Model 54. If so The receiver was made in 1925. Is there a date stamp on the bottom of the barrel close to the action? Being a 54 bbl, it should be prewar.

The Model 70 is the model 54 with many refinements. There wasn't much difference between them at the end of the 54.

I've read some early Model 70's used 54 bbls, but have not seen one.

Most pre war guns were not made for scope use and the bolts were different.

The Model 70 NRA type sporter stock was used on the model 54's at the end for them.

Early model 54's had a 2 piece firing pin that was a little fragile, it was changed to a one piece but I do not remember the date.

Your gun looks to have the NRA stock which is odd with low 54 SN.

If that is a model 70 SN it is a prewar gun, 1937 I believe. It has the pre war safety like my 1st year Super Grade in Govt '06.

The other option was, someone put a new model 54 barrel on the gun to replace one of the worthless ones of the era, like a 7mm or a 300 savage etc.

I don't consider the 7mm "worthless", and the .300 is still a killer at average hunting ranges. Jack O'Connor liked the 7mm M-70 and had a couple and one was his wife's favorite rifle, with which she slew many animals. Bell and Corbett killed a lot of elephant and tigers with 7x57mm rifles. You prob. know that the .275 Rigby is just the 7mm with Rigby's patented bullets.

Jack got Winchester to assemble for him the final 7X57mm they made in the old M-70. He wrote that it arrived while he was in hospital from a car wreck and cheered him considerably.

 

[Frank46]

I've a 1928 model 54 action that is setup for the good old 30-30. To use a scope yes the bolt handle had to be altered for the use of a scope. Now a model 70 bolt in a model 54 action is a horse of a different color. The standard model 54 bolt with a model 70 bolt will get exactly one shot off. Why, because the top of the trigger is only meant for the 54. So you have to disassemble the action from the stock and remove the 54 trigger so that the cocking piece can come back and out of the action. The cocking piece on the 70 bolt has been modified to work with the 54 trigger. I wish the OP would take the barreled action of the stock as I'm greatly curious as to the modifications were carried out. I had my bolt fixed up by Abercrombie& Fitch in NYC many years ago. The rifle came with scope mount holes predrilled and they also drilled the two holes on the left hand side of the action for use of a rear sight like a lyman or redfield. And for those that don't know Abercrombie & Fitch was the home to Griffen & Howe custom gunsmiths. Cost me a grand total of $40 bucks, whic was a good sume back in the early 70's. Griffen & Howe had a gun room and not just any gun room. Think glass doors and behind these doors were probably millions of dollars worth of firearms. Rifles, carbines, single shot and bolt action. Shotguns single barrel,two barrel side ways, two barrels up and down and combination guns that fired either shotgun shells or with the flick of a finger allowed you to shoot a rifle cartridge. Then there were the double rifles many of British make. No handguns were seen but there probably would be brought out for a special customer. The gunsmith who did the work on my 54's bolt was George Beitzinger. When George left to start his shop he started at on Atlantic avenue Jamaica Queens county. About 6 months ago George sold his lathe and I guess what remained in his shop and took a justifying retirement. Frank

 

[jvettman]

Frank, what is it you want to see? I will get a picture of it, just not sure what your looking for.

 

[Frank46]

The difference between the stock M54 trigger and the way they did the sear surface on the bolts cocking piece. I have heard about these 54/70 conversions but never saw one up close. Frank

 

[jvettman]

I do have a nice picture of the trigger action...maybe that will show you what your looking for?

 

[model70hunter]

I don't consider the 7mm "worthless", and the .300 is still a killer at average hunting ranges. Jack O'Connor liked the 7mm M-70 and had a couple and one was his wife's favorite rifle, with which she slew many animals. Bell and Corbett killed a lot of elephant and tigers with 7x57mm rifles. You prob. know that the .275 Rigby is just the 7mm with Rigby's patented bullets.

Jack got Winchester to assemble for him the final 7X57mm they made in the old M-70. He wrote that it arrived while he was in hospital from a car wreck and cheered him considerably.[/QUOTE


That was tongue in cheek, I like the 2 I mentioned. They were not big sellers and appeared to be worthless at that time, that is one thing that made them rare. I have read of folks who bought some of the less popular calibers and had them rebarreled.

I have read all I could by Bell and all others, I know Jack also liked the 7MM. In one of my threads a while back I mentioned making a 7MM in the English sporting gun style and stamping it 275 Rigby. I do remember Jack telling of the last 7MM.

My library is in storage, but I think Jack's hospital gun was another custom Featherweight to give him a back up for his favorite gun, an Al Beisen (Spelling?)
made gun.

 

[2152hq]

Nice rifle..
I think it went back to W and they re-bbld it w/a M70 bbl. The '70' marking maybe punched down and restamped '54' making for the bruise in the metal under the number.

I had read somewhere that Win would re-bbl w/ available M54 bbls as long as they remained in stock after the model was discontinued.
After that the M70 bbl probably got the call till someone in a white shirt tells them to stop doing that so they can sell more M70's.

Should have a factory proof mark on the bbl lined up well with the recv;r proof. The two marks may not match perfectly if the recv;r is the original from 1925 and the bbl 1946(+).
If the gun was refinished at the time it was bbl'd, then the old recv'r proof would be belted off which sounds like what may have occurred if it has a sandblast finish now.

If it's an outside job, the bbl may have a P in a circle proof on it (postal proof) for a bbl sent outside the factory to a 'gunsmith' for fitting.
A take-off bbl fitted aftermarket would have the WP proof on it of course and is another possibility.
But I'd doubt an original takeoff M54 bbl made in 1946!

I think the factory also would convert the bolt to the early M70 and alter the trigger too. I read it somewhere but can't recall now where I saw it.

Nice rifles the M54,,I liked the 30-30 version I had for a while.
Just different enough for my liking.

 

[Frank46]

Jvetteman, would like to see the cocking piece on your 54 bolt if at all possible. Looks like you have a standard 54 trigger. I paid $75 for the 54 barreled action from a gunshop in Brooklyn NY. Had advertised in the shotgun news. Called them up to verify they had them and hustled down there. Bore looked to have a more than a passing experience with corrosive ammo and it was pretty bad. Cleaned it up and was decent accuracy. Fouled up badly though. Had a local smith do a bishop stock for it. Frank

 

[jvettman]

I grabbed a quick shot of the upper trigger action...not sure when I will have it torn down to get a pic of the rest of it. Let me know if this gives you what you are looking for. One of the pictures above shows the bottom of the bolt with the cocking piece on it.