Iran attacking Israel

Don't forget to tip your hats to the Ukrainian Armed Forces, who've got the most warfighting experience in the world at air defense - they've freely shared the hard-learned techniques with NATO and the US; you see now how it paid off. Also know Ukraine asked for Israeli Iron Dome technology and were turned down flat.
 
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Don't forget to tip your hats to the Ukrainian Armed Forces, who've got the most warfighting experience in the world at air defense - they've freely shared the hard-learned techniques with NATO and the US; you see now how it paid off. Also know Ukraine asked for Israeli Iron Dome technology and were turned down flat.

IMHO they should never have agreed to the Budapest Memorandum. If they hadn't de-armed, I bet Russia would have thought long and hard before attacking the number 3 nuclear arsenal holder in the world.

I can only wonder if this was part of Israel's thought process about not sharing strategic details with them.
 
The Israelis have announced that they will retaliate at a time and place of their choosing. Our leader has stated there will be no assistance provided by the US if they do.
 
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The Israelis have announced that they will retaliate at a time and place of their choosing. Our leader has stated there will be no assistance provided by the US if they do.


Better the U.S. does not commit but with ability to
change policy than to commit and then betray
that commitment even if warranted. "Our leader"
has excellent diplomatic and military advisors.
 
The first drones (small unmanned remotely controlled aircraft) were developed and tested by both the British and American militaries during WWI but were not used operationally. So at least the idea of using drones for warfare goes back for over 100 years.

I have worked with a few Iranians who were able to flee the country before the unpleasantness of the late 1970s. They struck me as very intelligent and logical people, not Islamic zealots, nothing like how many of us view Iranians today.

Historically, the Iranians have been a cut above the typical nomad Arabs. They are Persians, and as such are more technologically inclined, better educated, and organized than your garden variety Arabs. Unlike most Muslim countries, they generally haven't let Islam bring scientific development to a halt.
This makes them potentially a more dangerous foe, especially because oil revenues, and billions of dollars the US gives them periodically to buy and build a large inventory of sophisticated weaponry.
 
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How the world responded to Kuwait's needs...History and Society, Persian Gulf War, Britannica

Over the following months the U.S. military carried out its largest overseas deployment since World War II. By mid-November the U.S. had more than 240,000 troops in the Gulf and another 200,000 on the way, and the United Kingdom had sent more than 25,000, Egypt 20,000, and France 5,500. Some 25 other countries, including Canada, Syria, Bangladesh, and Morocco, had committed troops and weapons to the military buildup that was designated Operation Desert Shield. On November 29, 1990, the UN Security Council passed Resolution 678 by a vote of 12 to 2, sanctioning the use of force if the Iraqis had not left Kuwait by January 15, 1991. Only Cuba and Yemen voted against the resolution, with China abstaining. This was the first UN authorization of the use of force since 1950, when the Security Council approved military action against North Korea after its unprovoked attack on South Korea. With this resolution in place, the U.S. offered to engage in a dialogue with Saddam to extend the possibility of a peaceful settlement based on a timely Iraqi withdrawal. unquote

Think there were more that contributed. Hussein had his eyes on Saudi Arabia, who helped as much as anyone else.
 
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Apparently Iran transmitted the flight paths of the incoming munitions before the launch. Everything except the ones launched by Hezbollah. That made it a little more easy to intercept them. It looks like this was a face saving move by Iran more than anything else.
 
Apparently Iran transmitted the flight paths of the incoming munitions before the launch. Everything except the ones launched by Hezbollah. That made it a little more easy to intercept them. It looks like this was a face saving move by Iran more than anything else.

Source please.
 
^^^ Although the above is well presented, along with a large dollop of cynicism, I heard nothing to substantiate a source for his assertion that the flight plans were delivered by the Iranians pre-launch.

Indeed, a US official has specifically denied that targets were named, although quite why we should be told is beyond me at this late hour. reuters.com That the Iranians gave advanced notice of an attack is not in dispute, and the probably did so for their own reasons. What they are I don't care, I just appreciate that Israel and its supporters had the chance to prepare for the attack.

A comment on "flight plans". As I pointed out in another post, Israel is a small place, smaller than New Jersey and even a good number of counties in the Western US. It's easy for me to get a grip on the size of Israel as it is almost exactly the same size as Clark County, NV, where I live. Additionally, a quick look at a map reveals there are only so many lines of bearing from which missiles and drones launched by Iran and its proxies can follow. This eases the interception problem greatly.

With its small size and nearby enemies, Israel has some of the most closely surveilled airspace anywhere in the world. I bet when they turn on all their radars there's enough RF in the sky to cook a frozen chicken in about ten minutes. They are going to see everything coming in any kind of ballistic trajectory, with cruise missiles and drones picked up using Phalcon airborne radars. EL/W-2085 - Wikipedia As for precise timing on the attack, I would wager that the US infra-red satellites detected the booster rockets that the Iranians use to get things airborne and the information was passed to the Israelis and the other participating allied nations.
 
^^^ Although the above is well presented, along with a large dollop of cynicism, I heard nothing to substantiate a source for his assertion that the flight plans were delivered by the Iranians pre-launch.

I'm sure he's not in a position to give exact sources but the interaction with the Swiss is documented in several other outlets that didn't go into the same detail as he did. I tend to doubt that he's just making it up. In the context of his presentation it wouldn't surprise me if it's true. As I said, I'm not a disciple of this guy and his predictions don't always pan out (What pundits predictions do?) but he has some interesting views. I particularly like his discussions about how demographics are driving a lot of things now. Believe it or don't believe it. It is what it is.
 
I wonder if Tehran can hold their salt when the ball is in the other court.

Looking at countries like Yemen, Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon broadcasts Tehran's goal is to destroy Israel and take over the Middle East with their edited Shi'ism. Why does not the UN stop them? Yemen and Hezbollah have been great entertainment for the world to keep their eyes off Russia. Both Iran's workings.
 
IIRC, the Iranian air force is still flying F 4 Phantoms.
 
IIRC, the Iranian air force is still flying F 4 Phantoms.

Still a capable aircraft in the right hands...but maintenance is suspect. Against the IAF with more modern aircraft flown by among the most capable, motivated and trained pilots in the world...the Iranian Air Force will have an exciting but short life.
 
Still a capable aircraft in the right hands...but maintenance is suspect. Against the IAF with more modern aircraft flown by among the most capable, motivated and trained pilots in the world...the Iranian Air Force will have an exciting but short life.

Sort of a remake of the great Marianas turkey shoot!
 
Do you all remember when Saddam bragged that he had the 7th largest military in the world. How did that work out? These third world clowns don't realize what will happen when the US military is let off it's leash.
 
Still a capable aircraft in the right hands...but maintenance is suspect. Against the IAF with more modern aircraft flown by among the most capable, motivated and trained pilots in the world...the Iranian Air Force will have an exciting but short life.

With the F35's stealth and the right tactics, I suspect most Iranian F-4 crews wouldn't realize they were dying until after their plane blew up.
 
Still a capable aircraft in the right hands...but maintenance is suspect. Against the IAF with more modern aircraft flown by among the most capable, motivated and trained pilots in the world...the Iranian Air Force will have an exciting but short life.
Not only is maintenance questionable, but don't forget that the avionics haven't been updated since 1979.
 
Not only is maintenance questionable, but don't forget that the avionics haven't been updated since 1979.

Not with anything willingly supplied by the US, anyway. However, I wouldn't underestimate the Iranian's ability to source stuff from other places and adapt it.
 
The DoD hasn't seen fit to confer with me since June of '75 so I am pretty much in the dark Intel wise.

As LCDR "Tom" Dodge said: "Hey! I'm just guessin' here".
 
Not with anything willingly supplied by the US, anyway. However, I wouldn't underestimate the Iranian's ability to source stuff from other places and adapt it.

Well there was an 8 year period there where they might have gotten an upgrade.
 
Nobody should sell Iran short. They can be a real pain when the time comes. Money can buy anything china or russia has to offer, and that includes a nuke or two. If it means the destruction of the US or Israel, the sales to a terrorist country is a bargain for them. That's why I believe that Israel will give them no quarter when the sparks begin to fly.
 
Fighter planes are high performance machines. Things tend to break. Lots of spares are required to keep them operational in peace time, let alone when they go into combat for real. Naturally, these parts are not something you would go pick up at the local hardware store or order from Amazon.

I'm not sure McDonnell Douglas (now Boeing) still supports these aircraft, nor if they do, would they be inclined to for a country like Iran. More and more of Iran's F-4s are no doubt being cannibalized to keep a shrinking number airworthy.

No doubt the Russians or perhaps the Chinese could modify current technology to function in these elderly machines, but that would require a team of engineers to get the hardware and software created, installed and extensively tested. Very expensive to do something like that.

There's a big difference between getting something just barely flying and having it perform in aerial combat. Israel would sweep them from the sky or blow them apart on the ground. They would have to run away to Afghanistan and hope they could land somewhere more or less friendly, much like Iraqi jets did in Desert Storm.

Personally, I'm surprized the Russians/Chinese haven't supplied them with MiGs.
 
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