is a hand a hand (586 carry up issue revisited)

[SW CQB 45]

in trying to determine why my 586-3 wont carry up

I noticed the following...

*trigger pull is heavy but smooth

*cylinder does not start to rotate until the hammer is at a certain point.

I check my POS M65 that is timed correctly and is my competition svc piece.

*the cylinder starts to rotate much earlier in the trigger stroke on the Model 65 (almost at the begining)

Now my question.

is a hand a hand?

Kframe, Lframe, Nframe....does it matter? do they interchange?

If the cylinder on the Lframe 586 is rotating later in the trigger stroke than the cylinder on the Kframe 65....is my hand in the 586 too short (height wise)?

me does not understand the hand, ratchet, window, throat and domaflagee.

thanks in advance

 

[bgrafsr]

The hands are different lengths for the K, L, & N frame guns. They are not interchangeable.

It is possible that you have a K frame hand in the 586, but very doubtful that it would even work. You also have to make sure that the cylinder stop is clear of the cylinder notch before the hand starts to turn the cylinder.

 

[SW CQB 45]

I need to order an Lframe hand!!!!!!!! I will check on the cyl stop.

I will get on the horn with SW on Monday.

Is there a way to tell what you got?

I guess I could measure from the pin to the top of the hand?

thanks Bill

 

[Fastbolt]

Know any S&W revolver armorers at any agencies?

Save yourself some grief and either let an experienced revolver armorer or the factory examine the gun. One of the first couple of steps up in oversize L-frame hands might resolve your problem (or introduce a long ratchet condition which will annoy the dickens out of you), or cutting a new extractor using the original hand might resolve it.

Tell the company it's a cop's personal weapon and see what they offer in the way of examination, correction & shipping.

 

[stantheman86]

May be of some help, but I am (or was?) having the same issue with a Model 10-10.

Two of the chambers had late carry up, where in slow SA cocking the bolt stop would just barely drop into the stop slot, in very, very slow SA those two chambers would stop short of full lockup.

But, get this...........when loaded with 6 spent cartridges it times perfectly?!? even when cocked as slow as humanly possible, the bolt drops in much earlier than when unloaded.

It's as if the cartridge rim catches on the hand and "helps" it to carry up. It shoots and times fine while shooting, which is what counts I guess. This gun is only a range shooter/beat around gun, so I'm just gonna leave it as is.

 

[SW CQB 45]

I shot this gun in a match when I first got it last year.

I am going to say...the gun shot really good and I dont recall the carry up issue.

As anal as I am, I would not have shot this gun if in the condition I found it recently.

I have tested both dry and empty cases in the cylinder and still short.

I think I will call SW on monday and see if they can help. I doubt they will buy a 6" gun is a duty revolver, but I will see.

this gun was at a gunsmith with two other guns and I called him up not to do anything with this gun since I got the M14-5. could it be possible if the gunsmith had the 586 apart....he could have put the wrong hand back in. I dont know, cannot prove but it sure is baffling to me.

thanks for all the advice

 

[Wayne M]

Disssamble your yoke and cylinder assembly from the frame and soak overnight in solvent. When you remove them from the solvent place the cylinder back on the yoke and spin, take apart and clean the yoke tube, repeat until it comes out clean. Gunk in the yoke tube or cylinder where the yoke tube rides can cause the problem you describe and outside a quarter mil or so rounds thru the gun your hand should still be ok. Before reassembly to the frame dry everything and place one drop of good gun oil on the outside and inside of the yoke tube. You're ready to give it a try.

Always try the simple fixes before moving on.

 

[SW CQB 45]

Wayne, my guns internally are spic and span. There is no build up on anything and I usually apply too much lube....except on glocks.

Thanks anyway

 

[bgrafsr]

S&W will be down for two or three weeks starting Monday. Check with Brownell's or Midway and see if they have L frame hands.

 

[SW CQB 45]

thanks for the info Bill!

 

[gboling]

Wayne, my guns internally are spic and span. There is no build up on anything and I usually apply too much lube....except on glocks.

Thanks anyway

If the cylinder was cleaned with a bronze brush while the yoke was out of the cylinder, a broken bristle could have gotten into the cylinder preventing the yoke from seating properly.

 

[Fastbolt]

May be of some help, but I am (or was?) having the same issue with a Model 10-10.

Two of the chambers had late carry up, where in slow SA cocking the bolt stop would just barely drop into the stop slot, in very, very slow SA those two chambers would stop short of full lockup.

But, get this...........when loaded with 6 spent cartridges it times perfectly?!? even when cocked as slow as humanly possible, the bolt drops in much earlier than when unloaded.

It's as if the cartridge rim catches on the hand and "helps" it to carry up. It shoots and times fine while shooting, which is what counts I guess. This gun is only a range shooter/beat around gun, so I'm just gonna leave it as is.

The new style revolvers use the cases in the charge holes to align the extractor in proper relation to the hand, instead of the earlier cylinder design which had the 2 pins located under the extractor (and which supported the extractor). The extractors are now cut with properly sized dummy rounds in the charge holes and armorers are now taught that carry up is to be checked with dummy rounds in the charge holes. If no dummy rounds are in the charge holes the extractor isn't being supported and held fixed, so an accurate check of carry up will not occur.

Oh, and CQB, they've never seemed to care whether it was a duty gun or a personally-owned off-duty gun. Just being owned and used by a cop has seemed to be enough to qualify it as a LE gun. They've also expressed an interest in expediting service to folks who send in guns used for competition, too, and like to get guns back in time for matches.

 

[SW CQB 45]

thanks Fastbolt for the info.

I will just try to go through SW first.

 

[Nightowl]

You can see the hand in the hand slot with the cylinder open. The tip of the hand should be at the bottom of the slot and about even with frame face. If is is way short, it is probably not an L frame hand. If that is fine, you will need a wider hand. Hands come in standard and oversize width, and vary in width in those two catagories. They can sometimes be tricky to fit or sometimes just a simple parts replacement. It sounds like it needs a trip to the factory if it still has the issue after you follow the advice given in previous posts.