Is a new diesel really worth it?

[Glockman9mm]

Long story short my buddy will be in the market in a year or so for a new truck. He bought a 32 foot Bumper pull camper last year and has a older V10 1ton Ram Dually. Truck pulls it fine, the camper is about 8k dry. You can imagine the fuel milage he's getting pulling that hoss, iirc he said about 5MPG.

His furthest trips are every other weekend about a hour and a half away one way. Furthest he went last year was about four hours one way, but he only did that once.

Now fast forward, I think he's getting dead set on a diesel. Personally I think this is a bad idea. This isn't a argument of what pulls better, gas or diesel. If you've ever pulled with both you'll know the answer. If you're out pulling a skid steer day in and day out and certainly near that 12-14k range a diesel makes sense.

My thing is truck prices are through the roof, a base model gas truck will run you 40k at least new, roll with the diesel option and add another 10k no matter what brand you go with. Imo the bigger issue is the Def and all the emissions garb they put on these things. Not to factor in the higher maintenance costs and god forbid something goes bad they aren't cheap to fix or say replace injectors on.

Fuel costs more and yet they will do better MPG wise, if you crunch the numbers you'll be a long way out before you recoup the fuel consumption difference. Seems these newer modern gassers are better equipped and rated for towing than ever before. I have a 2017 2500HD with the 6.0 and 4:10's out back. I can average 12 MPG around town, I've done as good as 16 MPG on the highway and about 10 MPG towing around 8K.

Don't get me wrong I'd love a diesel but I personally can't justify it and I don't think he's thought a lot of this through.

I'm well aware it's not my money nor my problem, just trying to steer a brother away from what I think could be a potential problem.

Thoughts?

 

[rubiranch]

If I was going to buy a new truck I wouldn't buy a diesel.
I'd either buy a new Ford with their new 7.3L gas or a Chevy with their 6.6L gasser.

 

[Glockman9mm]

If I was going to buy a new truck I wouldn't buy a diesel.
I'd either buy a new Ford with their new 7.3L gas or a Chevy with their 6.6L gasser.

That's where I'd be at and as a life long GM guy is like to try the new ford 7.3 gasser. He's one of these die hard Dodge/Ram guys. I recently discovered they put that displacement on demand on those 6.4 Hemis like GM puts on the 5.3's. I told him I'd stay clear of that nonsense. I've had a Silverado with that and wasn't a fan.

 

[bigwheelzip]

You might be surprised at what he can get for his old pickup. Hubby priced out a new truck yesterday, with his low-miles 4x4 97 V10 Ram 2500 SLT as trade-in, and they offered $13,000 on it.
As to whether something is worth what is paid for it? It is if it makes you happy.

 

[Rodan]

It all depends on what you're towing/hauling.

For towing heavy, and longer distance, it's hard to beat diesel. The new gassers are impressive, but still nowhere near the torque of a diesel.

Our '17 Ram is at 33k miles, and about 27k of that is hauling a 4500lb camper, 9000lb car trailer, or both. I've never felt it needed more power, and the Rockies are a regular part of our travels. It consistently turns in better mileage than a gasser would with the equivalent load. And when you're over 50ft bumper to bumper, it's a lot easier to fuel at the big truck pumps than try to fit next to a typical gas station pump.

I've not had any issues with the emissions equipment, and it's warranteed to 100k miles, so I don't worry about it much. DEF is kind of a pain, but IMHO it's worth it for a clean running, clean smelling truck.

All that said, if I was only pulling 8k lbs, and driving locally, I'd probably look pretty hard at the new Ford 7.3 gasser. With the 10sp transmission, it should be a pretty capable truck...

 

[Rodan]

I recently discovered they put that displacement on demand on those 6.4 Hemis like GM puts on the 5.3's. I told him I'd stay clear of that nonsense. I've had a Silverado with that and wasn't a fan.

I've talked to several GM mechanics that have nothing good to say about the displacement on demand engines... lots of valvetrain issues...

 

[swsig]

Some of you guys are thinking too rationally. Vehicle choices don't have to be totally rational, otherwise we'd all be driving Toyota Corollas and minivans. If someone wants a diesel, I'd say get one! Life is too short to always drive the same type of vehicle.

BTW, I just got my Consumer Reports automobile review edition, and the Ram 2500 pickup is rated as one of the most reliable vehicles of any type. So tell your friend to go for the reliable Ram and its big ol' Cummins diesel with its 850 lb-ft of torque and its 19,680 lb towing capacity. He'll not only love it, he might even let you drive it.

 

[adwjc]

My son has done a ton of research on the Ford F150 Powerboost (not Ecoboost).

This is their Hybrid truck that uses a 3.5 liter twin turbo V6 and a 1.5 kiiowatt battery that drives a 35 Kilowatt electric motor.

It can put out 430 horsepower and 540 foot pounds of torque. Towing capacity is 12, 700 pounds. One weakness, bed capacity is only 2,120 due to the battery weight and the electrics.

Now the good stuff - the standard generator can produce 2.4 Kilowatts. The really big news is that you can option a 7.2 generator - enough to run a house w/ central air, as was recently done in Texas.

The Powerboost costs $2500 on top of the standard Super Crew setup w/ the 3.5 L V6

Mileage claims are that you can travel 700 miles per tankful. You can run the 2.4 KW generator for 85 hours on a full tank, the 7.2 KW for 32 hours on a 30.6 gallons. EPA rating for the 4x2 is 25/26/25 the 4x4 gets 24/24/24

 

[glenwolde]

I'm diesel fan all the way but I pull more than 17 000 pounds. My personal opinion is you can't have too much truck.

 

[SweetMK]

I bought my first Chevy 6.0 the first year they came out,, 1999,,
it was supposedly the sixth 6.0 truck to come to the Roanoke valley,,

In 2018, I bought a second 6.0,, and I could not be happier.

 

[dasnake]

For me.

I have no sway in your gasser opinions, but I'm with the other deezel lovers, never enough power, never to much power, I have a '07 dooley 5.9, dressed the motor, trans, suspension, run 4:10 dana, when travelling run about 18,000 lbs, i swear it's a Wednesday truck, my first deezel, and my last, bought a shovel in '84 when it was the last year, I just like keeping stuff, good luck on your buds decision.

 

[S-W4EVER]

I'm on my third Ram/Cummins 3500 4x4. I have to go through the mountains no matter which way I go so Diesel is the way to go for me when we're towing our travel trailer (which we do when we're visiting our extended family). I don't see myself ever going back to a gas engine.

BTW, you might pay more for a Diesel but you get it back when you trade it in.

YMMV

 

[SuperMan]

First diesel was a 6 year old 1996 Ford F250 with 160K on it...ran it till 2012 and sold it to a friend with 309k on it...talked to him a couple of months ago and it now has 365k and he had just got done resealing the motor... The whole time I had it the only thing motor wise that was replaced was the glow plugs and harness. Mileage ran between 16 city to 24 highway.

Replaced it with a 2006 F250 6.0 in 2012 that had 90k on it...at 215k had to have the oil cooler and EGR cooler replaced..other than that it has run right along and is about to head to Idaho shortly. Gets 14-16 around town and 17-19 highway with 3.73s.

When this truck is replaced I probably won't get another diesel as I don't tow that much any more...

 

[mstem]

You might be surprised at what he can get for his old pickup. Hubby priced out a new truck yesterday, with his low-miles 4x4 97 V10 Ram 2500 SLT as trade-in, and they offered $13,000 on it.
As to whether something is worth what is paid for it? It is if it makes you happy.

I was pumping gas a few weeks ago, a guy walks up & ask me what year & mileage of my truck. Well my hand went to my S&W M&P 9. I thought I was about to have my truck stolen. He said calm down, want to make an offer on your truck. So I told him it's an '02 Silverado with 123000 miles & very clean He said he'd give me $10,000 for it. I was shocked to say the least but told him it wasn't for sale because. I'd bought it from Dad couple months before he'd died in '09. Didn't tell him but Dad wanted $3000 for it & that's all he'd take. Well then he offered me $12,000 & I still said no. Then he told me to name my price. Told him it wasn't for sale. He gave me a card with his name, number & told me to think about what I want for it then give him a call. I may be crazy but I'm keeping my truck. I threw away his card.

 

[Glockman9mm]

I've talked to several GM mechanics that have nothing good to say about the displacement on demand engines... lots of valvetrain issues...

I got rid of mine when it had about 150k on it, it was getting where it liked to use the oil.

 

[Glockman9mm]

My son has done a ton of research on the Ford F150 Powerboost (not Ecoboost).

This is their Hybrid truck that uses a 3.5 liter twin turbo V6 and a 1.5 kiiowatt battery that drives a 35 Kilowatt electric motor.

It can put out 430 horsepower and 540 foot pounds of torque. Towing capacity is 12, 700 pounds. One weakness, bed capacity is only 2,120 due to the battery weight and the electrics.

Now the good stuff - the standard generator can produce 2.4 Kilowatts. The really big news is that you can option a 7.2 generator - enough to run a house w/ central air, as was recently done in Texas.

The Powerboost costs $2500 on top of the standard Super Crew setup w/ the 3.5 L V6

Mileage claims are that you can travel 700 miles per tankful. You can run the 2.4 KW generator for 85 hours on a full tank, the 7.2 KW for 32 hours on a 30.6 gallons. EPA rating for the 4x2 is 25/26/25 the 4x4 gets 24/24/24

Problem is it's still a half ton and at the end of the day it won't pull as comfortable as a 3/4 or 1 ton. I've been around the Ozarks in the summer and what some people pull with those Ecoboost trucks is rather frightening.

 

[Glockman9mm]

I bought my first Chevy 6.0 the first year they came out,, 1999,,
it was supposedly the sixth 6.0 truck to come to the Roanoke valley,,

In 2018, I bought a second 6.0,, and I could not be happier.

Nice truck!

 

[steelslaver]

I don't know about the Chevy Dura Max, but, the Cummings is a beast as is the Ford 7.3 and both run forever. The latest Ford 6.7 diesels 390 hp and 735 lb-ft are beasts and seem to have got back to being reliable after the horrible 6.0 and 6.4 motors. I wouldn't go back to gas on an actual tow truck, but then my 7.3 "only" has 250,000 miles and should last me the rest of my life unless I decide to become a nomad, sell everything and live in a big camper. Then I would just buy a crate 7.3 for $4K and throw another 10 grand at my trucks suspension, brakes etc and have a very reliable truck. Joke is I paid $8,500 for my truck in 2009 with 165,000 miles on it and now it is worth more than that with 85,000 more miles on it.

In other words I would be hard pressed to buy a new diesel truck. I would find an older rig in decent shape and throw say 20K at it and be money and truck ahead of a shiny new truck.

 

[Truckman]

I replaced my much loved but wrecked 2003 Dodge 3500 with a 2009 Dodge 3500 flatbed, both Cummins powered...Just as I said in the AR-15 thread, it's got nothing to do with need...I want my diesel and that's what I'll drive until they bury me......Ben

 

[Glockman9mm]

I don't know about the Chevy Dura Max, but, the Cummings is a beast as is the Ford 7.3 and both run forever. The latest Ford 6.7 diesels 390 hp and 735 lb-ft are beasts and seem to have got back to being reliable after the horrible 6.0 and 6.4 motors. I wouldn't go back to gas on an actual tow truck, but then my 7.3 "only" has 250,000 miles and should last me the rest of my life unless I decide to become a nomad, sell everything and live in a big camper. Then I would just buy a crate 7.3 for $4K and throw another 10 grand at my trucks suspension, brakes etc and have a very reliable truck. Joke is I paid $8,500 for my truck in 2009 with 165,000 miles on it and now it is worth more than that with 85,000 more miles on it.

In other words I would be hard pressed to buy a new diesel truck. I would find an older rig in decent shape and throw say 20K at it and be money and truck ahead of a shiny new truck.

Trying to find a pre Def truck that's clean and not ragged OJT is pretty rare around here. If you find one people usually want almost as a new one costs.