alphabrace
Member
Forgive me, i am still learning but i don't see much value in an adjustable rear site on a smaller gun such as a model 60 with a short barrel, 3" or less. I don't have one but am looking hard at that frame size. Any thoughts?
Is an adjustable rear site necessary?
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OP
alphabrace
Member
Forgive me, i am still learning but i don't see much value in an adjustable rear site on a smaller gun such as a model 60 with a short barrel, 3" or less. I don't have one but am looking hard at that frame size. Any thoughts?
Small short guns make no difference to me.Now is the rest of my opinion. I once thought I would never buy a gun (over 2 inch) with fixed sights. I have since bought two or three and I find the fixed sights suit my purpose better than I thought. I guess it is what you will use the gun for. Most fixed sights are pretty accurate with the bullets they were regulated for. I reload so ammo can be adjusted for the difference.
My feeling is any gun 3 in. or less you need to learn to point shoot. Yes they can be surprisingly accurate at longer ranges with sighted fire but that's not really their purpose. If you are looking at a snub I wouldn't give any thought to adjustable sights or not. I actually prefer belly guns to have no sights as I don't plan on using it unless the threat is almost in my face. Sighted fire is preferred if you have time but you can't count on that. Point and click.
I disagree, I think adjustable sights are valuable on 2" guns. I regularly shoot my model 15 2" out to 50-100 yards, and it makes a difference big time, with different loads shooting high or low, to be able to adjust the sights.
VAdoublegunner
Member
I think it depends on the gun and purpose. I have a 4" 681, a great combat revolver, but w/o adjustable sights it is limited to shooting whatever shoots to POA. If it shoots to POA with your preferred load, no problem. Do I need adjustable sights on a 2.5" 686? Not if it is used solely for short range defense, but I like to shoot it at longer distances and it is superbly accurate, much like toroflow1's Model 15. On the other hand, I have a 2" Model 63, which is a great little field companion gun. Without adjustable sights to set for it's preferred rimfire ammo it wouldn't be particularly useful, but it is accurate enough to be used for a small game gun out to 20 yds or so. Same for a Model 651 in .22 Mag. I have a good mix of both types, and generally prefer adjustables, but the fixed do have their purpose and can work quite well within their confines. It's the confines that sometimes present the problem and limit their usefulness.
bountyhunter
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It is for me. The fixed sight guns I buy never shoot to POA.
Snapping Twig
Member
Haven't found the firearm I haven't had to adjust the sights on, so far that is.
I've standardized my reloads to a +P and a magnum for the .357 and the .44 so I don't have to chase around the sights.
I've standardized my reloads to a +P and a magnum for the .357 and the .44 so I don't have to chase around the sights.
OP
alphabrace
Member
Forgive my lack of knowledge; POA meaning Point of Aim?
JohnK
US Veteran
Urban legends:
(1)You don't need decent sights for self defense.
(2) adjustable sights are extremely fragile, and will fall apart at the wrong time.
Both wrong !
I can point shoot with most, but I WANT decent sights when the need arises.
I've been carrying adj. sight revolvers (and autos) for durn near 50 years, through all kinds of rough conditions. None of the sights fell apart.
It takes a damn good, (and young) shot to even halfway see the sights on a fixed J-frame. Try it in the semi-dark, and see.
(1)You don't need decent sights for self defense.
(2) adjustable sights are extremely fragile, and will fall apart at the wrong time.
Both wrong !
I can point shoot with most, but I WANT decent sights when the need arises.
I've been carrying adj. sight revolvers (and autos) for durn near 50 years, through all kinds of rough conditions. None of the sights fell apart.
It takes a damn good, (and young) shot to even halfway see the sights on a fixed J-frame. Try it in the semi-dark, and see.
jeffrey
Member
I prefer adjustable sights more for the size of the sights than for the ability to actually adjust them. At 56, my eyes just don't pick up the fixed sights as well as they used to. And I have had a few guns that really did need their sights adjusted a bit.
winter1857
US Veteran
My opinion is: Yes and No.
Jeff Copper would always ask: What is the gun FOR?
If the weapon is FOR self defense adjustable sights are not necessary. Find a good load that shoots POA and you are set.
If it is a multi-purpose weapon with which you intend to shoot multiple loadings and bullet weights you probably need adjustable sights.
I think that for what MOST of us do MOST of the time, adjustable sights are not necessary.
Some folks like adjustable sights but I think in reality they never touch the sights at all....
Jeff Copper would always ask: What is the gun FOR?
If the weapon is FOR self defense adjustable sights are not necessary. Find a good load that shoots POA and you are set.
If it is a multi-purpose weapon with which you intend to shoot multiple loadings and bullet weights you probably need adjustable sights.
I think that for what MOST of us do MOST of the time, adjustable sights are not necessary.
Some folks like adjustable sights but I think in reality they never touch the sights at all....
panamajack310
Member
I will say adjustable sights on a revolver are important for my Law Enforcement needs. I need to be able to point shoot from 0 to 5 yrds. and need to be very accurate from 5 to 25 yds. I like using Winchester ammunition. S&W are tested with Federal ammunition. So there is a big difference in what happens with the 2 bullets..Adjustable sights allows you to compensate for that difference.
Doug M.
Member
*
Amen. I don't worry about adjusting the sights on much of anything, but being able to see them (and pick them up FAST) is vital. The sights on the new Night Guards are the kind of fixed sights I try to have when I can.
winter1857
US Veteran
Sir -- That sounds great and maybe you are an exception but the after action reports most of us see show that most shots miss or are non-lethal.... The differences of loadings between manufacturers of ammunition were not an issue. Center mass is pretty much the best you can hope for.
Again, everyone is different and has different expectations. Everyone needs to find what works best for them but my opinion is that fixed sights with a proper load (and practice with that load) would work for 99.9999% of what most of us do.
But unlike some of these guys I don't do much 100 yard sniping with a 2 inch Model 15!
BUFF
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
I prefer adjustable sights not only for their ability to zero with different loads, but because they are bigger and blockier than fixed sights. This makes them far faster to pick up. I find the small fixed sights, especially stainless sights on stainless J frames, are almost impossible to see under some lighting conditions, especially bright sun.
That said, the three guns I carry most often (read: "Every day.") are a S&W M-642, a Colt Government Model and a Colt Commander. They all shoot very close to point-of-aim with the ammo I am required to carry. The Colts have tritium night sights added, which are a bit bigger and blockier than the original sights.
I wonder if winter1857's comment about most shots fired in anger missing their targets has something to do with the shooters not using, or not seeing, their sights. I think it does.
The purpose of shooting is to hit. Remember, you can't miss fast enough to keep up.
That said, the three guns I carry most often (read: "Every day.") are a S&W M-642, a Colt Government Model and a Colt Commander. They all shoot very close to point-of-aim with the ammo I am required to carry. The Colts have tritium night sights added, which are a bit bigger and blockier than the original sights.
I wonder if winter1857's comment about most shots fired in anger missing their targets has something to do with the shooters not using, or not seeing, their sights. I think it does.
The purpose of shooting is to hit. Remember, you can't miss fast enough to keep up.
If you are shooting to hit center of mass in a self defense situation like most people anticipate all you need are fixed sights, if any. I sometimes think most gun owners think that any confrontation is going to be like Gunsmoke, high noon in the middle of the street at 15 paces. I always assume the worst, which would be a limited target, at a range that is either closer or longer than where I am at my best. In that case I want sights that I can see and a gun that shoots to POI. You don't have to stretch too much to see how it could happen.
Suppose you are attacked and realize at the last second that the attacker is wearing a vest? You have only a second or so to retarget the head and if your sights are small, hard to see and off a couple of inches you are stacking the odds against yourself.
Suppose you are attacked and realize at the last second that the attacker is wearing a vest? You have only a second or so to retarget the head and if your sights are small, hard to see and off a couple of inches you are stacking the odds against yourself.
I have a Model 19 with a 2.5 inch barrel that has adjustable sights. I also have a model 422 that does not.
With the model 19, I can adjust the point of aim to match the point of impact I want.
With the model 442, I had to try several different loads to get one that POI &POA where close.
Depends --- close and quick really does not need a rear sight. Helps when you get over 15 yards though. =
With the model 19, I can adjust the point of aim to match the point of impact I want.
With the model 442, I had to try several different loads to get one that POI &POA where close.
Depends --- close and quick really does not need a rear sight. Helps when you get over 15 yards though. =
Jack Flash
Member
From all the responses, you can see it's pretty much an individual choice. If someone says that he absolutely, positively, must have adjustable sights on a 2" snubbie, I will not argue with him.
For myself, I rely on fixed sight revolvers for home defense, and will carry same, assuming I ever get my permit.
Anything that can be adjusted can go out of adjustment. Also, bigger, blockier sights may be easier to see, but they are also more prone to snag clothing, etc., at the most embarassing moment. Finally, being able to adjust the sights for each different load you use means you have to be very dilligent to ensure that you have the sights right on for the cartridges currently in the cylinder, not the ones you were using yesterday for some other purpose. Did you really remember to re-adjust the sights? Did you count the clicks right? Or did you make a trip to the range to test this load (not one that "should be similar")?
For me, it's just another thing that can go wrong (See Murphy's Law). If I wanted greater complexity and more variables, I would select a self-loader.
Just my 2 cents.
For myself, I rely on fixed sight revolvers for home defense, and will carry same, assuming I ever get my permit.
Anything that can be adjusted can go out of adjustment. Also, bigger, blockier sights may be easier to see, but they are also more prone to snag clothing, etc., at the most embarassing moment. Finally, being able to adjust the sights for each different load you use means you have to be very dilligent to ensure that you have the sights right on for the cartridges currently in the cylinder, not the ones you were using yesterday for some other purpose. Did you really remember to re-adjust the sights? Did you count the clicks right? Or did you make a trip to the range to test this load (not one that "should be similar")?
For me, it's just another thing that can go wrong (See Murphy's Law). If I wanted greater complexity and more variables, I would select a self-loader.
Just my 2 cents.
