Hans Gruber
Member
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2014
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A lot has been said about how the X-frames are too large for any practical use - also too powerful for "defensive" use.
Here are some interesting stats:
S&W Model 500 4" barrel
OAL 10.25"
Wt 3.56 pounds empty
"Power range" 1,000 lb-ft up to 2,200 lb-ft KE
S&W Model 500 6.5" barrel
OAL 12.875"
Wt 3.79 pounds empty
"Power range" 1,000 lb-ft up to 2,500+ lb-ft KE
Walker Colt of 1847 9" barrel
OAL 15.5"
Wt 4.5 pounds empty
"Power range" approximately 500 lb-ft of KE when loaded for combat purposes
Colt's Third model Dragoon (Improved Walker)
OAL 14.75"
Wt 4.38 pounds empty
"Power range" somewhat less than the Walker due to the cylinder being deliberately limited to 50 grains capacity, and a shorter 7.5" barrel
All the "powerful" sixguns produced prior to the cartridge era were HUGE even by modern standards, and in fairness, they delivered "power" equal too or greater than the modern 9mm/.40/.45 ACP - but not by much.
The Walker Colt and subsequent Dragoons were also extremely expensive to purchase.
By comparison, the modern S&W M500 4" barrel is a virtual "subcompact!" It is lighter than the old Colts, shorter, easier to handle and balance, and has the modern advantage of being capable of kinetic energies above 2,000 lb-ft. With reduced loads in the paltry (relatively speaking), 1,000 lb-ft KE range, the 4" M500 has virtually zero recoil and can be rapid fired just like any other revolver, as well as rapidly recharged. Even with loads delievering 1,800 lb-ft the "little" .500 is easily controlled during rapid fire strings - though when one is delivering 5x the kinetic energy of a .45 ACP, the need to fire "strings" is pretty redundant if the first shot connects.
Would an "Indian fighter" (Native American fighter) down in Texas have refused an S&W M500 with 6.5" barrel and a supply of "mid-power" ammo had it become available to him?
While I am fully versed in the "modern" concept of shooting half-a-billion rounds per gunfight from a high-capacity, "modern," low-powered semiautomatic pistol, I am equally aware that "first shot hits" are DOWN since the "old days" when revolvers were standard issue. The most important aspect of a gun fight (after the use of tactical awareness, movement, escape, and cover), is to make the FIRST ROUND count...do that, and you don't need 28 more. However, if the first round is sub-optimal for the "animal" being shot, THEN your probability of a successful outcome has "shifted to the left" statistically speaking, and you're relying on luck...because 350-400 lb-ft is NOT adequate for a one-shot stop on a 200+ pound person...no more than it is on a 200+ pound deer. Would ANYONE with any sense go Bear hunting with a .45 ACP? Think bears are huge? Sure, many are, but MOST are around 250 pounds...and fully capable of grabbing an adult human male and running off with him. Interestingly, an adult human male is ALSO fully capable of inflicting enormous damage while soaking up hit after hit from sub-optimal caliber handguns.
Current thinking is to put two-three rounds into an attacker "really really quick!" But if those two or three rounds are sub-optimal they lack a crucial aspect of "stopping power" - that is to say, the ability to destroy, pulverize, explode, tear out, fragment, and otherwise blast away large portions of anatomical structures. Shoot a man in the shoulder with a .45 ACP what happens? Shoot a man in the shoulder with a 7mm Magnum and what happens? A .500 Magnum? The .45 ACP MIGHT break some bone depending on "luck factors" and MIGHT connect with an artery depending on "luck factors", whereas the .500 Magnum (real loads) will completely EXPLODE the shoulder joint...creating a massive wound that renders the recipient incapable of continued combat. Whether you hit the shoulder area with one, two, or three .45 ACP rounds, other than the increased number of entrance wounds, there will be NO explosive destruction of bone and tissue.
A SINGLE hit from a .30-30 rifle 170 grain softpoint to a man's knee will cause traumatic amputation...THAT man won't continue the fight! The M500 is MORE powerful than the .30-30 with a larger, heaver slug.
Many will argue that the M500 cannot be carried concealed...though in fact it CAN be carried concealed quite readily - yes it requires a person dedicated to the cause to strap on 4 pounds of handgun, but just to give another "stat" the 4" M500 is only 30% heavier than a steel framed 1911!
More importantly, there are MANY ways to carry a large handgun "concealed" besides on the waist...people these days are carry all sorts of bags, packs, pouches, and purses, and of which can EASILY contain a 4" M500 complete with reloads.
I point all this out because anything less than the .44 magnum REAL loads, or .357 magnum from a 6"+ barrel with TOP loads, or a 10mm with TOP loads is sub-optimal for human "defensive" combat. I realize that not everyone can carry or handle a large handgun in the "magnum" power scale, and a 9mm certainly beats nothing...15 rounds of 9mm are even better, but when it comes to making ONE shot put a human down...10mm is the "buy-in" threshold, the M500 is the optimum power level.
Give an enraged 200 pound man a large KNIFE in an enclosed space, and start shooting as soon as he starts slashing and stabbing and see how many he takes with him...just like shooting bears with "lesser" power calibers.
So it brings me full circle to the point of this missive...when compared to what became available in 1847, the .500 S&W magnum is "compact" yet capable of exponentially greater terminal energy!
Here are some interesting stats:
S&W Model 500 4" barrel
OAL 10.25"
Wt 3.56 pounds empty
"Power range" 1,000 lb-ft up to 2,200 lb-ft KE
S&W Model 500 6.5" barrel
OAL 12.875"
Wt 3.79 pounds empty
"Power range" 1,000 lb-ft up to 2,500+ lb-ft KE
Walker Colt of 1847 9" barrel
OAL 15.5"
Wt 4.5 pounds empty
"Power range" approximately 500 lb-ft of KE when loaded for combat purposes
Colt's Third model Dragoon (Improved Walker)
OAL 14.75"
Wt 4.38 pounds empty
"Power range" somewhat less than the Walker due to the cylinder being deliberately limited to 50 grains capacity, and a shorter 7.5" barrel
All the "powerful" sixguns produced prior to the cartridge era were HUGE even by modern standards, and in fairness, they delivered "power" equal too or greater than the modern 9mm/.40/.45 ACP - but not by much.
The Walker Colt and subsequent Dragoons were also extremely expensive to purchase.
By comparison, the modern S&W M500 4" barrel is a virtual "subcompact!" It is lighter than the old Colts, shorter, easier to handle and balance, and has the modern advantage of being capable of kinetic energies above 2,000 lb-ft. With reduced loads in the paltry (relatively speaking), 1,000 lb-ft KE range, the 4" M500 has virtually zero recoil and can be rapid fired just like any other revolver, as well as rapidly recharged. Even with loads delievering 1,800 lb-ft the "little" .500 is easily controlled during rapid fire strings - though when one is delivering 5x the kinetic energy of a .45 ACP, the need to fire "strings" is pretty redundant if the first shot connects.
Would an "Indian fighter" (Native American fighter) down in Texas have refused an S&W M500 with 6.5" barrel and a supply of "mid-power" ammo had it become available to him?
While I am fully versed in the "modern" concept of shooting half-a-billion rounds per gunfight from a high-capacity, "modern," low-powered semiautomatic pistol, I am equally aware that "first shot hits" are DOWN since the "old days" when revolvers were standard issue. The most important aspect of a gun fight (after the use of tactical awareness, movement, escape, and cover), is to make the FIRST ROUND count...do that, and you don't need 28 more. However, if the first round is sub-optimal for the "animal" being shot, THEN your probability of a successful outcome has "shifted to the left" statistically speaking, and you're relying on luck...because 350-400 lb-ft is NOT adequate for a one-shot stop on a 200+ pound person...no more than it is on a 200+ pound deer. Would ANYONE with any sense go Bear hunting with a .45 ACP? Think bears are huge? Sure, many are, but MOST are around 250 pounds...and fully capable of grabbing an adult human male and running off with him. Interestingly, an adult human male is ALSO fully capable of inflicting enormous damage while soaking up hit after hit from sub-optimal caliber handguns.
Current thinking is to put two-three rounds into an attacker "really really quick!" But if those two or three rounds are sub-optimal they lack a crucial aspect of "stopping power" - that is to say, the ability to destroy, pulverize, explode, tear out, fragment, and otherwise blast away large portions of anatomical structures. Shoot a man in the shoulder with a .45 ACP what happens? Shoot a man in the shoulder with a 7mm Magnum and what happens? A .500 Magnum? The .45 ACP MIGHT break some bone depending on "luck factors" and MIGHT connect with an artery depending on "luck factors", whereas the .500 Magnum (real loads) will completely EXPLODE the shoulder joint...creating a massive wound that renders the recipient incapable of continued combat. Whether you hit the shoulder area with one, two, or three .45 ACP rounds, other than the increased number of entrance wounds, there will be NO explosive destruction of bone and tissue.
A SINGLE hit from a .30-30 rifle 170 grain softpoint to a man's knee will cause traumatic amputation...THAT man won't continue the fight! The M500 is MORE powerful than the .30-30 with a larger, heaver slug.
Many will argue that the M500 cannot be carried concealed...though in fact it CAN be carried concealed quite readily - yes it requires a person dedicated to the cause to strap on 4 pounds of handgun, but just to give another "stat" the 4" M500 is only 30% heavier than a steel framed 1911!
More importantly, there are MANY ways to carry a large handgun "concealed" besides on the waist...people these days are carry all sorts of bags, packs, pouches, and purses, and of which can EASILY contain a 4" M500 complete with reloads.
I point all this out because anything less than the .44 magnum REAL loads, or .357 magnum from a 6"+ barrel with TOP loads, or a 10mm with TOP loads is sub-optimal for human "defensive" combat. I realize that not everyone can carry or handle a large handgun in the "magnum" power scale, and a 9mm certainly beats nothing...15 rounds of 9mm are even better, but when it comes to making ONE shot put a human down...10mm is the "buy-in" threshold, the M500 is the optimum power level.
Give an enraged 200 pound man a large KNIFE in an enclosed space, and start shooting as soon as he starts slashing and stabbing and see how many he takes with him...just like shooting bears with "lesser" power calibers.
So it brings me full circle to the point of this missive...when compared to what became available in 1847, the .500 S&W magnum is "compact" yet capable of exponentially greater terminal energy!
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