Lock the slide to the rear for about 5 days and see if that helps.
We do see this from time to time, but it generally rights itself after a couple hundred rounds.
C4
Is S&W working on a solution?
- Thread starter modraker
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Lock the slide to the rear for about 5 days and see if that helps.
We do see this from time to time, but it generally rights itself after a couple hundred rounds.
C4
Jboutfishn
Member
I have a M&P 9 Pro 5", manufactured April 2014. No clue about spring but it dumps cases approximately two feet to the right and one foot behind ejection port. This result is with 115 gr copper plated X-Treme LRN over 4.5 gr HP-38, a mild load. I have nothing to judge against but the recoil seems light to me compared to my S&W M&P 40C shooting 165 gr copper plated LRN that Chrony 1180 FPS. I will Chrony the 9MM tomorrow if it will give you any useful information.
dullh
Member
The biggest offender in the "brass in the face" category I have is my beloved MkII Hi-Power.
The best way to avoid the problem all together is to switch to revolvers...
The best way to avoid the problem all together is to switch to revolvers...
Jboutfishn
Member
I ran a few rounds through the Chrony, averaged 1130 fps.
mjsmith1223
Member
It wouldn't be a movie without defying the laws of physics 
That was unrealistic, but entertaining.
That was unrealistic, but entertaining.
OP
modraker
Member
This would give you a power factor of about 130 (115 x 1130) at the point where your chrony is located. So your power factor would be greater at the muzzle.
My M&P 9c was giving me "brass to the face" with factory ammo that had a power factor of less than 130 at muzzle velocity.
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I can't put my hands on the manual anymore, but I used to have an early Glock armorer manual that listed the recommended minimum velocity figures for 9mm ammo to provide for normal functioning. I thought it had listed the minimum recommended MV for 115gr ammo to be something in the higher end of the 1100fps range, maybe 1170-1180fps, in order to provide for proper slide velocity & functioning. I remember it caught my attention because it was just about right at the factory velocity rating for the budget 115gr ball loads of the time. They stopped listing MV ammo recommendations in that manner in subsequent manuals.
If a particular round can't provide enough recoil force oomph for the slide to run its full travel, and at its intended normal speed, then the feeding "timing" may be a bit off and extraction/ejection issues might occur.
Unsurprising.
Now, add in any shooter-induced grip stability issues, further hampering normal functioning (reducing frame stability during recoil and robbing force from the recoil spring's function) ... and the potential for such functioning issues may be increased for any particular gun, ammo & shooter combination.
If a particular round can't provide enough recoil force oomph for the slide to run its full travel, and at its intended normal speed, then the feeding "timing" may be a bit off and extraction/ejection issues might occur.
Unsurprising.
Now, add in any shooter-induced grip stability issues, further hampering normal functioning (reducing frame stability during recoil and robbing force from the recoil spring's function) ... and the potential for such functioning issues may be increased for any particular gun, ammo & shooter combination.
Like I said above, my grip is not weak. If anything I usually have a death grip on the gun and have to relax it. On my Pro's the brass goes up a little bit on the right and then down. This happens with both my 5" Pro and the husband's Pro, different shooters. It has often hit my arm on it's way down to the ground. You can really see it on the video playback after matches. So I ordered an Apex extractor and wolff springs and guide rod today. I will play around and see which fixes it.
OP
modraker
Member
My M&P Pro has a 4.25" barrel so I don't know if the Wolff spring and guide rod will fit a 5" barrel. Do the two guns use the same length of recoil spring? What strength recoil spring did you order?
Bkreutz
US Veteran
They both use the same recoil spring assembly.
I've seen some large, strapping young men have death grips on their pistols ... but then also break the angle of their wrists in the wrong manner and diminish the support their forearm/wrist could provide to their grip hand. A death grip only supported by an unlocked wrist can still cause some shooters some perplexing problems. (Notice you don't hear of it being called "limp gripping", but "limp-wristing". I dislike the term, myself, and prefer to generalize it as an overall "grip stability" issue that needs to be carefully diagnosed for any particular person.)
Of course, so too can some types of low-powered ammo used for competition cause slide/velocity issues and erratic/weak ejection.
Sometimes a varying degree of less-than-optimal rigidity of a shooter's wrist (behind the firm grip) may exacerbate any potential problems created when lower powered ammo is used, though.
Start throwing in different shooters and playing around with recoil spring rates, and the mix can sometimes get really interesting.
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walkin' trails
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I have 3 M&Ps, a 45 and two 9s. One of the nines is a c and hasn't been shot yet, but I haven't seen anything resembling BTF.
OP
modraker
Member
BTF happens mostly to M&P 9C's. It certainly does not happen to all 9C's. And it only happens to ammo with a power factor of less than 130. Please let us know how your 9C shoots once you've taken it to the range.
My experience with M&P FS's is mainly weak ejection when using 115 gr and 124 gr FMJ factory ammo.
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